"We do't believe in war."

by hubert 31 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  hubert

  I've heard this time and again from my j.w. sister-in-law and daughter. Yet, when I found this hymn book, "Sing Praises to Jehovah", I was shocked to find war songs in it, such as ..

  "Gaining VICTORY over the world", page 3.

  "God's WARRIORS are advancing", page 39.

  "Proclaiming Jehovah's day of VENGEANCE", page 189.

  "See Jehovah's ARMY"! page 166.

  (Emphasis on capital words).

  When I showed this to my daughter, she just said,"Oh, but it's not with guns".

  Well, to me, it's still war. War is war, no matter how it is fought. And yet they say they don't believe in it.

  Any thoughts?
• 

  hubert

  Sorry for the mispell. I should have spell check it.
• 

  shamus

  God mercilessly killed women and children, so why would he not want to kill you or me?

  There are many references in they're trashy bible called 'jehovah of armies'.
• 

  El blanko

  I would hope that Almighty God would be a God of war, otherwise he would not exactly be pragmatic concerning truth & justice. One definition of war is a sustained campaign against crime & poverty. In order to wage that war you need an army

  The war you are quite rightly not supporting (I hope) is the ungodly war waged by mankind with their lust for material greed and power ..?
• 

  peacefulpete

  Yahweh went though gradual transformation from agricultural god to storm god to war god to god of the oppressed, in step with Palestinian cultural developement. Today the god is schizophrenic, with each cult or political faction extracting from the writings the personality that they most admire. JWs as a product of the fast paced industrial age and international war have recreated Yahweh as a time keeping creator god that demands obedience under threat of anihillation. Older churches tend to depict him as a patient tolerant benefactor. The newest churches of the last couple decades of shifting governments and uncertain economics interpret him as source of personal strength.

  While the JWs like to pretend to be passivists in fact they are plenty willing to kill 99.9% of the world' diversity to recreate the world in their image. Indiviually most all have moments of discomfort with this degree of intolerence being proposed but the imagined security provided in theese doctrines of election wins out in the end.
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  undercover

  I was raised as a JW and the one thing that kept me in longer than any other teaching was the "learn war no more" part. JWs take no part in worldly politics or wars. All other(or more correctly, most other) religions are running around killing each other. That one thing kept me going as a JW. But then as other things crept up that were wrong, I questioned everything. Including war. Pacifism is great if everyone adheres to it. But unfortunately, being a pacifist is a good way to being conquered, enslaved or killed because there is always an agressor out there.

  When I started reading some of the Bible on my own without the WTS influence one thing jumped out about the Israelites being led by their God. After their exodus from Egypt, after roaming around for forty years without a home, did God lead them to empty lands to settle down in? No, he had them invade and take over the lands of people already establised there. This wasn't self defense. This was an act of agression by an invading army. They killed women and children indiscrimanently. And people complain about George W. Bush invading Iraq.
• 

  greven

  Undercover I agree whole heartly when you say:

  Pacifism is great if everyone adheres to it. But unfortunately, being a pacifist is a good way to being conquered, enslaved or killed because there is always an agressor out there.

  There is a saying, and I'm not sure where I got it from, but I find it chillingly accurate:

  "Those who beat their swords to plowshares, will plow for those who don't''

  Greven
• 

  BluesBrother

  One thing that J W's certainly are NOT, is passivists. they proudly assert their beleif in the mass slaughter of the rest of humanity, especially apostates like you and me - in the Gt WAR of God the Almighty. To say, we don't believe in war is over simplification to the point of deception. They do not claim to be passivist.

  Instead they follow the principle of neutrality in worldly conflicts, claiming to be "No part of the world". Although if they are honest most witnesses of my acquaintance do have opinions in world issues, only human, I guess.

  So it is OK for them to endorse genocide on an unprecedented scale, while criticising the world outside for its wars
• 

  shamus

  they proudly assert their beleif in the mass slaughter of the rest of humanity, especially apostates like you and me

  Yet they are taught to leave the judging up to 'Jehovah'. Unfortunately, that scripture is thrown out the window when someone speaks out against the 'organization'.
• 

  undercover

  Jake or Elwood,

  It is true the WTS has never claimed to be a pacifist organization.

  However, they claim neutrality in the world's conflicts. To live during a war or in a war torn land has to put a strain on that neutrality. To have lived in Europe or Great Britain during WWII and claimed neutrality was in effect being a pacifist. War was everwhere and affected everyone. If you lived in London during the bombing raids, how could you not pull for the Allies to win over Hitler's air force? To completely deny support for the very troops that may mean life or death for you is pacifism in my book (undercover 1:1)

  Yes, JWs proudly assert their belief in mass slaughter of the rest of humanity as you pointed out also. But this mass slaughter comes at the hand of their deliverer. They stand by while their God and his general Jesus wipe out most of mankind, lifting nary a finger in support or against the slaughter. Again, to me, this is pacifism (undercover 1:2)

  No matter our individual viewpoint though, what all this boils down to is hypocrisy by the WTS. "We are a peaceful people. We don't kill. We stay neutral during conflicts. Oh, by the way. Our God is going to kill all of you."