We finally saw Fahrenheit 9/11

by Mulan 83 Replies latest social current

• 

  Mulan

  Dave got home early on Wednesday so we hustled off to the afternoon showing. (cheaper seats)

  It was amazing...................very compelling, and thought provoking.

  One of the most upsetting things was towards the end when he revealed that of all 96 (not sure of that number) members of Congress (Senate and House) only 1 member had a child in the military, actively serving. Why is that???? Hmmmm.

  There are lots of funny parts, many places we both cried, but it was very entertaining. I think it is a must see.
• 

  ApagaLaLuz

  I've seen it 3 times. I trying to make up for those (you know who you are) who werent going to see it :)

  I cried everytime for the mother. It's one thing when you see an actor on screen feel emotion, it's another to see a real person feel emotion. So my friends made fun of me. Bah! I didnt care, certain parts really tor at my maternal heart strings. Glad you liked it Mulan
• 

  Elsewhere

  Oh no! Please don't tell me you gave that man your money.

  Anyone who wants to watch the show without giving moore more money, just send me a PM. I might know how you can get your hands on it.
• 

  Cassiline

  One of the most upsetting things was towards the end when he revealed that of all 96 (not sure of that number) members of Congress (Senate and House) only 1 member had a child in the military, actively serving. Why is that???? Hmmmm.

  This intrigued me Mulan so I looked it up, my first thought was how many had children who were of age and found this:

  Two cases in point: First, Moore points out that of the 535 members of the current Congress, only one (Sen. Joseph Biden Jr., D-Del.) has a son in the military.

  "Damning evidence, to be sure," notes Salt Lake City Weekly movie critic Scott Renshaw. "Except Moore doesn't differentiate between 80-year-old senators with 50-year-old kids, 29-year-old representatives with toddlers and those who actually have children of reasonable induction age. Tennessee Rep. John Tanner, who gets waylaid by Moore, has a 35-year-old daughter and a 33-year-old son. It's a tirade, and a sloppy one at that."

  Cassi, still have not seen the movie
• 

  Crazy151drinker

  only 1 member had a child in the military, actively serving. Why is that???? Hmmmm.

  1) They are all old farts whose kids are in their late 30's early 40's. Most service members sign up when they are 18 or 19 and only stay in for 2-4 years.

  2) Many service members join because they need money for college. Most members of congress have $$$$ and can pay for their kids education.

  Why didnt Moore list the members of Congress who HAVE served in the Active Military? You think Bob Dole liked to send people off to war? You think Colon Powell hasnt seen people killed? What about good ol Kerry? NUMEROUS members of congress have served in the Military.

  In fact, why doesnt Mr. Moore shove THIS list up his fat ass! :

  Members in The United States 108th Congress
  with Military Experience
  (source CQ.com)

  House Member	Branch	Dates of Service	Highest Rank
  Todd Akin (R-Mo.)	Army	1972-80	2nd Lt.
  Rodney Alexander (D-La.)	Air Force Reserve	1965-71	Staff Sgt.
  Joe Baca (D-Calif.)	Army	1966-68	Not Reported
  Spencer Bachus (R-Ala.)	Ala. National Guard	1969-71	Not Reported
  Frank W. Ballance Jr. (D-N.C.)	N.C. National Guard	1968-71	E-2
  Cass Ballenger (R-N.C.)	Naval Air Corps	1944-45	Aviation cadet
  J. Gresham Barrett (R-S.C.)	Army	1983-87	Capt.
  Doug Bereuter (R-Neb.)	Army	1963-65	1st Lt.
  Michael Bilirakis (R-Fla.)	Air Force	1951-55	Not Reported
  Sanford D. Bishop Jr. (D-Ga.)	Army	1971	Not Reported
  Sherwood Boehlert (R-N.Y.)	Army	1956-58	Not Reported
  John A. Boehner (R-Ohio)	Navy	1968	Not Reported
  Leonard L. Boswell (D-Iowa)	Army	1956-76	Lt. Col.
  Allen Boyd (D-Fla.)	Army	1969-71	1st Lt.
  Henry E. Brown Jr. (R-S.C.)	S.C. National Guard	1953-62	Sgt.
  Max Burns (R-Ga.)	Army Reserve	1973-81	1st Lt.
  Dan Burton (R-Ind.)	Army	1956-57	Not Reported
  	Army Reserve	1957-62	Not Reported
  Steve Buyer (R-Ind.)	Army Reserve	1980-84	Capt.
  	Army	1984-87	Capt.
  	Army Reserve	1987-present	Lt. Col
  Howard Coble (R-N.C.)	Coast Guard	1952-56	Capt.
  	Coast Guard Reserve	1960-82	Capt.
  	Coast Guard	1977-78	Capt.
  Mac Collins (R-Ga.)	Ga. National Guard	1964-70	E-4
  John Conyers Jr. (D-Mich.)	Mich. National Guard	1948-50	Not Reported
  	Army	1950-54	Not Reported
  	Army Reserve	1954-57	Not Reported
  Robert E. "Bud" Cramer (D-Ala.)	Army	1972	2nd Lt.
  	Army Reserve	1976-78	Capt.
  Philip M. Crane (R-Ill.)	Army	1954-56	Cpl.
  Randy "Duke" Cunningham (R-Calif.)	Navy	1966-87	Cmdr.
  Thomas M. Davis III (R-Va.)	Army	1971-72	2nd Lt.
  	Va. National Guard	1972-79	Not Reported
  	Army Reserve	1972-79	1st Lt.
  Nathan Deal (R-Ga.)	Army	1966-68	Capt.
  Peter A. DeFazio (D-Ore.)	Air Force	1967-71	Lt.
  Bill Delahunt (D-Mass.)	Coast Guard	1963	Not Reported
  	Coast Guard Reserve	1963-71	Not Reported
  John D. Dingell (D-Mich.)	Army	1944-46	2nd Lt.
  John J. "Jimmy" Duncan Jr. (R-Tenn.)	Tenn. National Guard and Army Reserve	1970-87	Capt.
  Bob Etheridge (D-N.C.)	Army	1965-67	E-4
  Lane Evans (D-Ill.)	Marine Corps	1969-71	Lance Cpl.
  Terry Everett (R-Ala.)	Air Force	1955-59	Airman 1st Class
  Eni F.H. Faleomavaega (D-Am. Samoa)	Army	1966-69	Capt.
  	Army Reserve	1983-01	Capt.
  Ernie Fletcher (R-Ky.)	Air Force	1974-80	Not Reported
  Rodney Frelinghuysen (R-N.J.)	Army	1969-71	Pvt.
  Martin Frost (D-Texas)	Army Reserve	1966-72	Not Reported
  Richard A. Gephardt (D-Mo.)	Mo. Air National Guard	1965-71	Not Reported
  Jim Gibbons (R-Nev.)	Air Force	1967-71	Col.
  	Nev. Air National Guard	1975-95	Vice Cmdr.
  Wayne T. Gilchrest (R-Md.)	Marine Corps	1964-68	Sgt.
  Paul E. Gillmor (R-Ohio)	Air Force	1965-66	Capt.
  Charlie Gonzalez (D-Texas)	Texas Air National Guard	1969-75	Tech. Sgt.
  Virgil H. Goode Jr. (R-Va.)	Va. National Guard	1969-75	Not Reported
  Bart Gordon (D-Tenn.)	Army Reserve	1971-72	Not Reported
  Porter J. Goss (R-Fla.)	Army	1960-62	Not Reported
  Ralph M. Hall (D-Texas)	Navy	1942-45	Lt.
  Doc Hastings (R-Wash.)	Army Reserve	1964-69	Spec. 4
  Maurice D. Hinchey (D-N.Y.)	Navy	1956-59	Seaman
  David L. Hobson (R-Ohio)	Ohio Air National Guard	1958-63	Not Reported
  Joseph M. Hoeffel (D-Pa.)	Army Reserve	1970-76	E-4
  Amo Houghton (R-N.Y.)	Marine Corps	1945-46	Pfc.
  Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.)	Army	1969-71	Lt.
  Henry J. Hyde (R-Ill.)	Navy	1944-46	Ensign
  	Naval Reserve	1946-68	Cmdr.
  Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.)	Ga. Air National Guard	1966-72	Not Reported
  Darrell Issa (R-Calif.)	Army	1970-72	Pvt.
  	Army	1976-80	Capt.
  	Army Reserve	1980-88	Capt.
  Bill Janklow (R-S.D.)	Marine Corps	1956-59	Private First Class
  William J. Jefferson (D-La.)	Army	1969-75	Capt.
  Bill Jenkins (R-Tenn.)	Army	1960-62	Lt.
  Sam Johnson (R-Texas)	Air Force	1951-79	Col.
  Walter B. Jones (R-N.C.)	N.C. National Guard	1967-71	Not Reported
  Paul E. Kanjorski (D-Pa.)	Army	1960-61	Not Reported
  Peter T. King (R-N.Y.)	N.Y. National Guard	1968-73	Spec. 5
  Mark Steven Kirk (R-Ill.)	Naval Reserve	1989-present	Lt. Cmdr.
  Gerald D. Kleczka (D-Wis.)	Wis. Air National Guard	1963-69	Not Reported
  John Kline (R-Minn.)	Marine Corps	1969-94	Col.
  Joe Knollenberg (R-Mich.)	Army	1955-57	Cpl.
  Jim Kolbe (R-Ariz.)	Navy	1965-69	Lieutenant
  	Naval Reserve	1970-77	Lieutenant
  Ron Lewis (R-Ky.)	Navy	1972	Not Reported
  John Linder (R-Ga.)	Air Force	1967-69	Capt.
  William O. Lipinski (D-Ill.)	Army Reserve	1961-67	Not Reported
  Ken Lucas (D-Ky.)	Air Force	1955-57	Maj.
  	Ky. Air National Guard	1957-67	Not Reported
  Edward J. Markey (D-Mass.)	Army Reserve	1968-73	Not Reported
  Jim Marshall (D-Ga.)	Army	1968-70	Sgt.
  Jim McDermott (D-Wash.)	Navy Medical Corps	1968-70	Lt. Cmdr.
  Gary G. Miller (R-Calif.)	Army	1967-68	Pvt.
  Alan B. Mollohan (D-W.Va.)	Army Reserve	1970-83	Capt.
  Dennis Moore (D-Kan.)	Army	1970	2nd Lt.
  John P. Murtha (D-Pa.)	Marine Corps	1952-55	Lt.
  	Marine Corps	1966-67	Maj.
  	Marine Corps Reserve	1967-90	Col.
  Charlie Norwood (R-Ga.)	Army	1967-69	Capt.
  Solomon P. Ortiz (D-Texas)	Army	1960-62	Spc.
  Tom Osborne (R-Neb.)	Neb. National Guard	1960-66	Sgt.
  C. L. "Butch" Otter (R-Idaho)	Idaho National Guard	1967-73	Spec.
  Bill Pascrell Jr. (D-N.J.)	Army	1961	E-5
  	Army Reserve	1962-67	E-5
  Ron Paul (R-Texas)	Air Force	1963-65	Capt.
  	Pa. Air National Guard	1965-68	Capt.
  Steve Pearce (R-N.M.)	Air Force	1971-76	Capt.
  Collin C. Peterson (D-Minn.)	Minn. National Guard	1963-69	Staff Sgt.
  John E. Peterson (R-Pa.)	Army Reserve	1957-63	Spec. 2
  Joe Pitts (R-Pa.)	Air Force	1963-69	Capt.
  Jim Ramstad (R-Minn.)	Army Reserve	1968-74	1st Lt.
  Charles B. Rangel (D-N.Y.)	Army	1948-52	Staff Sgt.
  Ralph Regula (R-Ohio)	Navy	1944-46	Seaman
  Silvestre Reyes (D-Texas)	Army	1966-68	Sgt.
  Thomas M. Reynolds (R-N.Y.)	N.Y. Air National Guard	1970-76	Sgt.
  Harold Rogers (R-Ky.)	Ky. National Guard	1956-57	Not Reported
  	N.C. National Guard	1957-58	Not Reported
  	Ky. National Guard	1958-63	Not Reported
  Mike Rogers (R-Mich.)	Army	1985-88	Cmdr.
  Bobby L. Rush (D-Ill.)	Army	1963-68	Pvt.
  Ed Schrock (R-Va.)	Navy	1964-88	Capt.
  Robert C. Scott (D-Va.)	Army Reserve	1970-74	Not Reported
  	Mass. National Guard	1974-76	Not Reported
  Jose E. Serrano (D-N.Y.)	Army Medical Corps	1964-66	Not Reported
  John Shadegg (R-Ariz.)	Ariz. Air National Guard	1969-75	Not Reported
  Don Sherwood (R-Pa.)	Army	1964-66	1st Lt.
  John Shimkus (R-Ill.)	Army	1980-86	Capt.
  	Army Reserve	1986-present	Lt. Col.
  Rob Simmons (R-Conn.)	Army	1965-68	1st Lt.
  	Army Reserve	1970-00	Col.
  Nick Smith (R-Mich.)	Air Force	1959-61	Capt.
  Vic Snyder (D-Ark.)	Marine Corps	1967-69	Cpl.
  John M. Spratt Jr. (D-S.C.)	Army	1969-71	Capt.
  Pete Stark (D-Calif.)	Air Force	1955-57	Not Reported
  Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.)	Air Force	1963-67	Capt.
  John Tanner (D-Tenn.)	Navy	1968-72	Lt.
  	Tenn. National Guard	1974-00	Lt. Col.
  Gene Taylor (D-Miss.)	Coast Guard Reserve	1971-84	E-6
  Mike Thompson (D-Calif.)	Army	1969-73	Sgt.
  Edolphus Towns (D-N.Y.)	Army	1956-58	Not Reported
  Jim Turner (D-Texas)	Army	1970-78	Capt.
  Dave Weldon (R-Fla.)	Army Medical Corps	1981-87	Maj.
  	Army Reserve	1987-92	Not Reported
  Edward Whitfield (R-Ky.)	Army Reserve	1967-73	Lt.
  Roger Wicker (R-Miss.)	Air Force	1976-80	Capt.
  	Air Force Reserve	1980-present	Lt. Col.
  Heather A. Wilson (R-N.M.)	Air Force	1978-89	Capt.
  Joe Wilson (R-S.C.)	Army Reserve	1972-75	Not Reported
  	S.C. National Guard	1975-present	Col.
  Frank R. Wolf (R-Va.)	Army Reserve	1962-63	Enlisted
  C.W. Bill Young (R-Fla.)	Fla. National Guard	1948-57	Not Reported
  Don Young (R-Alaska)	Army	1955-57	Not Reported
  Senate Member	Branch	Dates of Service	Highest Rank
  Daniel K. Akaka (D-Hawaii)	Army Corps of Engineers	1945-47	Not Reported
  Robert F. Bennett (R-Utah)	Utah National Guard	1957-60	(Chaplain)
  Jeff Bingaman (D-N.M.)	Army Reserve	1968-74	Not Reported
  Conrad Burns (R-Mont.)	Marine Corps	1955-57	Cpl.
  Ben Nighthorse Campbell (R-Colo.)	Air Force	1951-53	Airman 2nd Class
  Thomas R. Carper (D-Del.)	Navy	1968-73	Capt.
  	Naval Reserve	1973-92	Capt.
  Thad Cochran (R-Miss.)	Navy	1959-61	Lt. j.g.
  Jon Corzine (D-N.J.)	Marine Corps Reserve	1969-75	Sgt.
  Larry E. Craig (R-Idaho)	Idaho National Guard	1970-71	E3
  Tom Daschle (D-S.D.)	Air Force	1969-72	1st Lt.
  Christopher J. Dodd (D-Conn.)	Army Reserve	1969-75	Not Reported
  Michael B. Enzi (R-Wyo.)	Wyo. Air National Guard	1967-73	Not Reported
  Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.)	Air Force	1982-88	Not Reported
  	Air Force	1990	Not Reported
  	S.C. Air National Guard	1989-94	Not Reported
  	Air Force Reserve	1995-present	Lt. Col.
  Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.)	Army	1967-68	Sgt.
  Tom Harkin (D-Iowa)	Navy	1962-67	Lt.
  	Naval Reserve	1968-74	Lt. Cmdr.
  Ernest F. Hollings (D-S.C.)	Army	1942-45	Capt.
  James M. Inhofe (R-Okla.)	Army	1956-58	Pfc.
  Daniel K. Inouye (D-Hawaii)	Army	1943-47	2nd Lt.
  James M. Jeffords (I-Vt.)	Navy	1956-59	Not Reported
  	Naval Reserve	1959-90	Capt.
  Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.)	Army	1951-53	Pfc.
  John Kerry (D-Mass.)	Navy	1966-70	Lt.
  Herb Kohl (D-Wis.)	Army Reserve	1958-64	Not Reported
  Frank R. Lautenberg (D-N.J.)	Army	1942-46	Cpl.
  Richard G. Lugar (R-Ind.)	Navy	1957-60	Not Reported
  John McCain (R-Ariz.)	Navy	1958-81	Capt.
  Zell Miller (D-Ga.)	Marine Corps	1953-56	Sgt.
  Bill Nelson (D-Fla.)	Army	1968-70	Capt.
  	Army Reserve	1965-71	Capt.
  Don Nickles (R-Okla.)	Okla. National Guard	1970-76	Not Reported
  Jack Reed (D-R.I.)	Army	1971-79	Capt.
  	Army Reserve	1979-91	Not Reported
  Pat Roberts (R-Kan.)	Marine Corps	1958-62	Lt.
  Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.)	Army Reserve	1973-86	Capt.
  Arlen Specter (R-Pa.)	Air Force	1951-53	1st Lt.
  Ted Stevens (R-Alaska)	Army Air Corps	1943-46	1st Lt.
  Craig Thomas (R-Wyo.)	Marine Corps	1955-59	Capt.
  John W. Warner (R-Va.)	Navy	1944-46	Not
• 

  L_A_Big_Dawg

  Great point, 151.

  You that are now canonizing Moore, need to do more leg work on getting facts.

  Haven't you learned anything from your trip down the WTS primrose path?

  You know, selective quotations? Quotations ripped out of context? Incomplete citations? Splicing quotes from seperate works to attempt to prove a falacious point?

  LABD
• 

  Princess

  Oh no! Please don't tell me you gave that man your money.

  Not to worry Elsewhere, she went to the matinee...cheap seats he didn't make much off them. That's usually the way we go too these days. It adds up when you have to buy four tickets along with the goodies.

  I'm still waiting for it to appear on Netflix
• 

  Yerusalyim

  Mulan,

  MOORE LIED: At least four members of congress have family there.

  Early in this segment, Moore states that ?only one? member of Congress has a child in Iraq. The action of the segment consists of Moore accosting Congressmen to try to convince them to have their children enlist in the military. At the end, Moore declares, ?Not a single member of Congress wanted to sacrifice their child for the war in Iraq.?

  Moore?s statement is technically true, but duplicitous. Of course no-one would want to ?sacrifice? his child in any way. But the fact is, Moore's opening ("only one") and his conclusion ("not a single member") are both incorrect. Sergeant Brooks Johnson, the son of South Dakota Democratic Senator Tim Johnson, serves in the 101 st Airborne Division and fought in Iraq in 2003. The son of California Republican Representative Duncan Hunter quit his job after September 11, and enlisted in the Marines; his artillery unit was deployed in the heart of insurgent territory in February 2004. Delaware Senator Joseph Biden's son Beau is on active duty; although Beau Biden has no control over where he is deployed, he has not been sent to Iraq, and therefore does not "count" for Moore's purposes.

  How about Cabinet members? Fahrenheit never raises the issue, because the answer would not fit Moore?s thesis. Attorney General John Ashcroft?s son is serving on the U.S.S. McFaul in the Persian Gulf.

  The editing of the Congressional scenes borders on the fraudulent:

  ?.Representative Kennedy (R-MN), one of the lawmakers accosted in Fahrenheit 9/11, was censored by Michael Moore.
  According to the [Minneapolis] Star Tribune , Kennedy, when asked if he would be willing to send his son to Iraq, responded by stating that he had a nephew who was en-route to Afghanistan. He went on to inform Moore that his son was thinking about a career in the navy and that two of his nephews had already served in the armed forces. Kennedy?s side of the conversation, however, was cut from the film, leaving him looking bewildered and defensive.

  What was Michael?s excuse for trimming the key segment? Kennedy?s remarks didn?t help his thesis: ?He mentioned that he had a nephew that was going over to Afghanistan,? Moore recounted. ?So then I said ?No, no, that?s not our job here today. We want you to send your child to Iraq. Not a nephew.??

  Kennedy lambasted Moore as a ?master of the misleading? after viewing the interview in question.

  Not that this will matter to you...that he lied.
• 

  Mulan

  That isn't the point.

  Bush has two daughters.................and many women are in the military. Do you think for a minute he would allow them to go to Iraq? Many of the members do have children in that age group, including the Senators from my State who are both younger than I am. They aren't in the military.

  I thought of the ages of the Congress, but MM approached some of them outside the Capitol and asked them how old their children were. One had a son 26, I think. When MM asked him about getting him to sign up, he said his son had a baby. So what? Lots of military people have families.
• 

  Cassiline

  What about good ol Kerry?

  Here I go again and I know people are tired of hearing me say it, but it seems that no one will respond to his torture and atrocities committed in Vietnam. He admitted doing things which are war crimes as stated by Geneva Conventions, but many support his bid to be our next president? Simply amazing to me. If he can do such with his own hands what will he order if we are at war again, what will be brushed under the proveribal rug?

  Cassi, broken record class