The poem INVICTUS - what a piece of crap!

by Tallyman 17 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Tallyman

  NO ONE has given their open interpretation to the poem, INVICTUS ? ?

  It has figured so prominently in the news this week...
  what with being America's Worst Mass Murderer Tim McVeigh's
  "LAST WORDS"

  The WORDS by which McVeigh wanted people to remember him.

  Has there been an intrepretation or discussion of INVICTUS
  in any other thread here, to which someone could point me?

  I'm surprised that no one in this thread has given their personal intrepretation of INVICTUS - hell, it's so short - a mere few lines -
  and yet has the power to impact people so tremendously.

  Cyg?

  XPatBrit?

  and
  COMF?? - not even YOU?

  .

  What gives?

  .
• 

  expatbrit

  Tallyman:

  To be quite honest, I really don't have any interpretations or deep thoughts on Invictus. To me it's just a piece of fluff written by a long dead minor poet. The last two lines are a bit catchy.

  What I found curious was the strength of your reaction to it, enough to construct a web page specifically for it. Whether or not it resonates to the events in your own life, I have no idea; I'm no psychotherapist, that's for sure.

  I was not going to bring the thread up again because I would rather remain on good terms with you than argue over interpretation of an obscure nineteenth century poem. I have no reason to disbelieve your research on Henley, indeed most poets and writers of the nineteenth century displayed monumental hubris.

  Having said that, I look forward to any future essays you have, since I find them interesting. I may also however, find them curious.

  Expatbrit
• 

  heathen

  thanx for the poem tallyman,and interesting
  interpretation.it was apparent to me that
  henley considered himself above reproach,which is
  typical of egomaniacs .he was clearly more affraid
  of being a hypocrite than admit he was merely human
  and had no control over his fate.it was more trying
  to slap God in the face by his statement not
  fearing what was in the scrolls.this is in stark
  contrast to how most people want to be remembered.
  it sounds like something hitler would take
  pride in which is what our local news stated.
  although mcveigh and hitler were guilty of taking
  innocent lives ,the justice system cannot morally
  take their lives and remain innocent.so there is
  plenty of blood on the heads of all involved.
  even those in the justice system think they are above
  reproach on the same philosophy but thats another
  discussion.
  heathens have more fun but often screwed up philosophies
• 

  natred

  i wish he had blown up the wts.
• 

  DannyBear

  Tally,

  Although the concept of being 'master of one's fate'...or 'capt'n of your soul' is heady, all of us are subject to the will of time and chance.

  This reality, should be enough for anyone to make some allowance for their own weakness. I suppose McV's last thoughts were somewhere close to 'huh oh, my fate is out of my control'...SHITTTTTT!

  Danny
• 

  Prisca

  Since you asked for our opinions on the poem, I'll offer mine. I'll look at it as how McVeigh may have possibly saw it from his viewpoint...

  INVICTUS

  Out of the night that covers me,
  Black as the Pit from pole to pole,

  In poetry, "black" and "night" are often used symbolically to represent death.

  I thank whatever gods may be
  For my unconquerable soul.

  Whether McVeigh believed in God or not, he acknowledges that his soul is "unconquerable". The guy is now part of history, and he will live on for as long as the memory of the Oklahoma bombing remains.

  In the fell clutch of circumstance
  I have not winced nor cried aloud.
  Under the bludgeonings of chance
  My head is bloody, but unbowed.

  McVeigh knew what he was doing. He wanted to die. He accepted whatever consequences befell him. Although we may have 'bowed' our heads under the pressure, McVeigh assures us that he has not.

  Beyond this place of wrath and tears
  Looms but the Horror of the shade,
  And yet the menace of the years
  Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.

  In other words, he's not scared (or so he wants us to believe) of what is about to happen.

  It matters not how strait the gate,
  How charged with punishments the scroll,
  I am the master of my fate:
  I am the captain of my soul.

  And so he accepts that what is about to occur is the responsibility of him alone. He was "charged with punishments" from "the scroll" - in other words, he was charged with willful murder, convicted, and punished with the death sentence.

  McVeigh is stating that he accepts the verdict (it was what he wanted all along) and so beyond the walls of death, he is still the victor, having accomplished what he wanted to do.
• 

  Cowboy

  Sorry,but as much as I loathe McVeigh,I kind of like the poem.
  
  To me it's all about pride and strength and a faith in ones own ability to play the cards they've been dealt.A bit defiant,perhaps,but I can relate to it.

  I'm speaking strictly of the poem - not of ANY of the conflicting personalities involved here.
• 

  larc

  Hello,

  I hesitated to comment, because I read Talley's four part story, and felt great sadness and admiration for him. I did not want my opinion of the poem to detract from his expression of ideas at the present time. However, I tried to read the poem without reference to its author or its use by McVey. Just reading the poem separate from any context, I come to the same conclusion as Cowboy. I think it is a testament to the human spirit in the face of all odds. I mean no offense when I say this, Talley, but I think it is a reflection of your own difficult, but honorable and successful struggle.

  Talley, not only have you survived, but your work against the Kult has helped save lives. God bless you.