Exactly what is the HISTORIC view of the DIVINE or of what being GOD meant long ago?

by TerryWalstrom 67 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  TerryWalstrom

  I think most of us are fascinated by our own ignorance of the LAW of IDENTITY, although, without it, we are apt to make category errors rather easily.

  1. In logic, the law of identity is the first of the three classical laws of thought. It states that “each thing is the same with itself and different from another”.
     1. Category error:

        
        

        the error of assigning to something a quality or action that can properly be assigned to things only of another category, for example, treating abstract concepts as though they had a physical location.
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  Viviane

  That is exactly how the Jews merged El and Yahweh into a single error, Terry. 
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  TerryWalstrom

  My mission here on earth is done! :)
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  Jonathan Drake

  According to this explanation:

  http://atheism.about.com/library/glossary/general/bldef_categoryerror.htm
  

  I fail to see how this is a category error. The God yahweh was never given "properties" the God could not have, and certainly none it could not have because said properties already belonged to El. Nor are the two Gods separate categories - they all fall under the same category of an immaterial being. why should it be unacceptable that two immaterial beings separated only by a name are not the same God?

  But I find myself giving no respect to belief in the undetectable, the unprovable, the unknowable. I find it hubris to pretend to know thing that can't possibly be know.

  - Viv
  

  Technically, all of this is theory. Looking up, I'm finding references stating this is really all theory since it's written like ancient Hebrew in that the full word isn't there. They assume "Yw" is "YHWH", it isn't a known fact. I enjoy the theory, and id like to read more about it, but if it cannot be asserted with certainty that Yw denotes YHWH, why argue that point? The bible claims El is Yahweh, the names such as israEL show this is very likely. But it nowhere shows a separate Canaanite God called Yahweh, and these tablets don't provide enough for more than a theory Yw in the tablet might be Yahweh, but it isn't a fact. It being only a possibility and not a fact doesn't appear to be disputed in what I can find online (which i plan to suppliment with a book). Hence, why position it as a fact? 
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  Viviane

  The God yahweh was never given "properties" the God could not have, and certainly none it could not have because said properties already belonged to El.

  But El wasn't Yahweh. There's the category error.

  Technically, all of this is theory. Looking up, I'm finding references stating this is really all theory since it's written like ancient Hebrew in that the full word isn't there

  You're quoting me from a different thread. Please post on that thread if you wish to discuss that topic and don't muddy Terry's thread with it.
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  MessianicChristian

  Regardless of belief or disbelief in the Hebrew prophets and Jesus and his disciples presentation of God and the hopes based on that presentation the only way to understand the Bible is to examine it in the cultural context and worldview of the Hebrew prophets and the Jewish Apostles of Jesus and their associate scribes [the apostles taught what Jesus taught them].

  The Hebrew nation was the only ancient nation to teach that there is only one true God, an individual personal being who is Creator of everything in existence and is personally responsible for the existence of all life.

  The Hebrew faith was presented in Hebrew texts that the common people could understand without esoteric mysteries or metaphysical speculations as were common in all of the pantheistic - polytheistic systems.

  John and his disciples and Jesus and his disciples believed in the promises made by the Hebrew prophets from Abraham to Moses to Daniel to Malachi.

  Who God is, who the Messiah - Christ is, and what is the kingdom God, according to the Hebrew and the Christian scriptural texts, is what the prophets of Israel told the people of Israel to expect in clear speech without esoteric mysteries or metaphysical speculations.

  Bible scholarship as practiced by most 'genuine' Bible scholars" with Ph.D.s ignore the uniqueness of the Hebrew prophets' presentation of God and wander throughout the pantheistic - polytheistic cultures pretending to fine the origin of the Bible's teachings.

  Most 'genuine' Bible scholars" with Ph.D.s are either incapable of or unwilling to distinguish between the actual teachings of the Hebrew scripture texts and the Rabbinic tradition preserved in the Talmud, and are either incapable of or unwilling to distinguish between the actual teachings of the Christian scriptural texts and the Christologies and the Theologies constructed by the Gnostic Christians, the Middle Platonic catholic Christians [ from Justin Martyr to Arius] and the Neo-Platonic catholic Christians [from Athanasius to Augustine].

  The problem is not the academic credentials of most Bible scholars, the problem is their lack of honesty and integrity.

  Bart Ehrman is one of the more honest Bible scholars, however most Bible scholars with Ph.D.s habitually misrepresent the text of scriptures as well as the actual documentary and artefactual data at their disposal in pursuit of atheistic and / or personal career agendas and objectives.
  

  
  
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  TheWonderofYou

  http://crossexamined.org/is-the-new-testament-reliable-erhman-refutes-ehrman/

  So who is a Bart Ehrman and who is a Bruce Metzger- Follower here?
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  MessianicChristian

  The Bible makes it clear that the forefathers of the nation of Israel ,Terah, Abraham, etc., worshiped others gods [Joshua 24:2].

  The Most High God called Abram away from his land and his family and made a covenant with him. It could be that the Most High God that called Abram to worship him exclusively as the Creator - the only existing God was the same God worshiped by the Semetic nations as El the High God of their pantheon.

  If the Most High God is the god worshiped by the Semetic nations as El then the problem would be that the Semetic nations had created other 'none existing' gods to worship alongside Him. This would account for the Most High God, if he is in fact El, calling Abram away from a pantheistic - polytheistic system to worship the Most High God exclusively.

  It is also possible that the name / title El functions the way that elohim does and is not exclusive to any one god.

  Polytheism is the multiplying of gods. The fact that people have invented many gods to worship does not mean [is not evidence ] that 1 Creator, 1 God does not actually exist.

  God's acknowledging that people worship many gods as is done in the 1st commandment is not acknowledging that many gods actually exist.

  "You must not have any other gods besides me" is not an acknowledgment that the gods worshiped by polytheists are real beings / gods that actually exist.

  The Hebrew nation, descended from Abraham through Isaac and Jacob / Israel were commanded - taught to worship only one God and were taught the this God was the Creator and therefore the only God in existence. For a time the nations from Abraham's by his wife Keturah also worshiped the God of Abraham but eventually took up polytheism from the surrounding nations.

  The Bible texts states that the nation of Israel intermarried with the Canaanite nations and worshiped their gods and the gods of the surrounding nations from the generation after their coming into the land of Canaan under Joshua until the Babylonian exile.

  Scholars are aware of this but because of their atheistic and career agendas they prefer to misinterpret the artefactual data to support the pretense that this is evidence that the nation of Israel was originally polytheistic.

  The claim that Hebrew monotheism developed from [1] polytheism to [2] henotheism to [3] monotheism is a 19th century ideological construct with neither archeological nor historical foundation. The natural progression would be for people to conceive of 1 god and add other gods with different functions over time.

  Claiming that people worshiped many gods before they worshiped 1 god makes as much sense as claiming the people conceive of the number 100 or the number 1000 before they conceived of the number 1.