Transfer of Bank Balances and Kingdom Halls.

by kramer 17 Replies latest jw friends

  • kramer
    kramer

    Two things related to ongoing comments regarding forgiving of loans / transfer of balances to the WTBS and the ownership of Kingdom Halls.

    Firstly, I would argue that congregations don't care that bank balances have been transferred to the society. I would contend that people contribute to the preaching work, and that's it , so long as there is enough in the bank to maintain the hall with a reasonable reserve, then I doubt many would argue against it. If so why would they argue to hold onto money not being used? The exception to this are groups of congregations saving for a refurb / new hall, that have forwarded the balance , and now the LDC won't sort out the said work.

    I noticed a comment regarding London, Chelsea's bank balance being transferred to the society. There is no need to hold £220k in the Bank for them , they can't rebuild (that would be way too expensive). It's the trustees legal responsibility to maintain reasonable reserves and to deploy the rest in charitable activity , either locally or internationally, as per their charitable objectives, so it makes sense to transfer it to the society.

    Secondly, people are talking about transfer of ownership of halls to the society. Is it the case that this is happening? I genuinely don't know. However if it had happened I would have expected to see a substantial jump in the value of the fixed assets in the society's accounts, which hasn't happened (in the UK anyway) . Is this really happening, or just in certain countries/ situations?

  • St George of England
    St George of England

    Most KH's in the UK have been "stolen" by the WTB&TS. They are held by THE KINGDOM HALL TRUST:-

    http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/CharityWithoutPartB.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=275946&SubsidiaryNumber=0

    Thus they can be sold any time they fancy!

    George

  • Juan Viejo2
    Juan Viejo2

    This eventual takeover was foreshadowed by the Menlo Park, California Kingdom Hall takeover back in 2011-2012. The Watchtower Society not only took over the Kingdom Hall that had been paid for (and paid off completely) with private and local funds, but disfellowshipped the then current elders (who were also board of trustees for the property) when they objected.

    The whole story has been replayed many times on this forum and also on Ex-JW.com and YouTube. In spite of the unforeseen events and final disposition of the Menlo Park affair, no one could see that within just a few months after the State Court ruled in favor of the Watchtower on a case relating to alleged bank fraud and deed issues - and the United States District Court for Region 9 refused to act on complaints filed there, the mold for the future was cast.

    Essentially both courts, by their rulings and rejection of the BOE complaints, opened the door for the Watchtower to take over every Kingdom Hall in the United States with impunity, whether those halls were financed by the Watchtower Society or completely with local funds and private gifts.

    Just think back 5 years and realize how far things have progressed. The Watchtower has become even more of a real estate holding company than a publishing company. Yes, they still do some printing, but compared to the heydays of 1950- 2000, "publishing" has mostly just become a front for them. Now it's all about buying and selling properties, mostly in the United States. They are now reaping the rewards of all those volunteer hours and donations that were used to buy, expand, and build from scratch the many buildings bought at fire-sale prices dating back to the 1920s.

    To think that they have already sold off well over a billion dollars in properties in New York and Brooklyn, but now have another billion-plus offer for several more buildings - and they still own more than a dozen others in New York. A "billion" (or a thousand-million in most other countries) is a very, very big number - even if it is only an accounting entry in some bank account. I could pay off most of my debt and go out to dinner once a week with a billion dollars.

    The Watchtower is pleading poverty, but that is just more of their misdirection. Like a magician, they say "look over there" while what they are really doing is going on behind their back or being manipulated inside their jacket or up their sleeves. A billion dollars could pay every JW child abuse victim a substantial amount, and they would still have a ton of assets - not counting what comes in every month.

    Like the fictional Wizard hiding behind the curtain, their act is all smoke, mirrors and self-puffery. Some day they will be exposed for what they have been doing. Eventually, some right-hearted Bethel attorney or officer in the organization will see the light and want to do the right thing - and expose all of the black secrets behind that curtain.

    Ray Franz did it once. There just has to be another brave soul who will eventually come out and tell the truth.

    May that day come soon...

    JV

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    What Juan said.

    Here's an interesting tidbit. Although the courts have ruled that they can do whatever they want with the Kingdom halls, from the research I've done they have not changed the ownership names. My old hall is still owned by the Lake Hills Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses LLC. Even though the WTBS could come in tomorrow and sell it, they are not the owner of record, therefore that asset does not show up on any WTBS financial record.

  • Brokeback Watchtower
    Brokeback Watchtower
    The Governing Body should just announce to the world or wear a sign on their back which says: Hey we lied so sue us and get a piece of the pie".
  • Juan Viejo2
    Juan Viejo2

    If the Watchtower is really hurting for money and want the massive outflow to stop, I have three suggestions for them:

    1. Stop protecting pedophiles and other criminals in Kingdom Halls. Report them to the police and let the courts handle the cases. Guess what? No more lawsuits for millions of dollars from injured victims and innocent children. They have to know in their hearts that Jehovah really does not want them to protect criminals - and he certainly does not want those criminals among his followers. The only reason the Watchtower is being sued is the fact that they have interjected the local (untrained and unsympathetic) elders into decision-making situations that should be left to the victims, their families, and the police. [Does the Watchtower ever really gain anyone worthwhile from their prison ministries? Other than conscientious objectors who were already JWs, why would you want to have murderers, rapists, thieves and con-men joining and showing up in your Kingdom Halls? Let them come on their own - don't recruit them.]

    2. Let individual Jehovah's Witnesses follow their own conscience when a blood transfusion is required. Let them take responsibility for their own lives. If punishment by God is involved, let them and Jehovah sort it out.

    3. Encourage young JWs to get higher educations. Let them get smart and trained in advanced skills so that they can make higher incomes and then contribute more to the "world-wide preaching work." They've already got enough poorly educated members in their organization - why not have a few smart ones? Just think - let the colleges teach the brothers how to write, speak in public, debate others, do research for the publications. One reason the Mormons are so successful is that most of their young people of both sexes are college educated. Ever hear of Brigham Young University? Yes, one of the best in the United States - and it even has non-Mormons attending. Maybe a few well-educated and trained brothers and sisters in the writing department will bring some life back to the books and hand-out literature.

    JV

  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim
    I think by this ''discouraging education'' could turn around and be the WT's Achilles heal. As the Borg gets desperate for money, the rank and file have less disposable income. Yes, the Borg should lighten-up on the frowning on ''higher education'', from a practical standpoint.
  • eyeuse2badub
    eyeuse2badub

    The end game by the wtbts is to OWN all the KH's and then 'lease' them out to the individual congregations by way of a monthly obligatory, "voluntary donation". That way the wtbts has a 'fixed', steady flow of income from the sheeple without them even knowing what's up. Gotta keep that super charged chariot running!

    just saying!

    eyeuse2badub

  • kramer
    kramer

    @stgeorgeofengland, OK, they use a custodian trustee mechanism, widely used by lots of charities.

    but why would the individual charities ever believe they own their own churches anyway? Publishers are just volunteers for a charity , they can no more claim ownership of a hall as can somebody that donates to a donkey sanctuary claim ownership of part of the stables. The society aren't 'stealing' anything as the publishers have never owned the hall. And even if they did any congregation would hand over ownership to the society if asked , if it's deemed to be needed

  • eyeuse2badub
    eyeuse2badub

    @stgeorgeofengland, OK, they use a custodian trustee mechanism, widely used by lots of charities.

    but why would the individual charities ever believe they own their own churches anyway?

    kramer,

    You make a valid point. The point of contention for most regarding this subject is the lack of transparency in the ownership of the KH's. Locals build them, maintain them, and pay for them and now locals will continue to pay, pay, pay for them. I don't think anyone has a problem with a monthly payment but at some time in the future if you are paying for something, you somehow expect to own it.

    Say it like it is, Local congregations of JW's are just leasing the building that they assume is THEIR local KH until the LEGAL owners (wtbts) decides to sell/remodel it and/or send the locals to another location!

    just saying!

    eyeuse2badub

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