The Trinity in the Old Testament

by hooberus 102 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  hooberus

  Example #1

  "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." Genesis 1:26

  Note the plural "our image", "our likeness" Yet from other verses it is clear that man was created in Gods image and likeness (singular).

  "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Genesis 1:27

  "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;" Genesis 5:1

  "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers? " Malachi 2:10

  Example #2

  "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

  Note the plural "us" with no idication of God speaking to others in the text.

  "Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken." Genesis 1:23

  Example #3

  "And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech." Genesis 11:6-7

  Note the plural "us", also note only the LORD speaking (no mention of others) in verse 6 as well as verses 8-9.

  "So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city." Genesis 11:8

  "Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth." Gensis 11:9

  Example #4

  "Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;" Genesis 19:24

  "And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground." Genesis 19:25

  Note the LORD raining brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven. The LORD had appeared in the form of a man to Abraham, and seems to have rained destruction from the LORD in heaven.

  "I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the LORD." Amos 4:11

  Note: God is speaking and refers to "God" who overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah in the third person. (compare with Genesis 19:24 above).
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  logansrun

  Many of the quotations you use from Genesis to "prove" the Trinity are understood by modern scholars as vestiges of polytheism in ancient Hebraic religion. Even so, no Jew -- orthodox or reformed -- would agree with your assesment. Nice try hoob.

  Bradley
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  Narkissos

  Or: polytheism in the lower (= older) strata of the O.T. texts / monotheism in the upper strata...

  Editing: sorry Bradley, just saw your post now...
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  hooberus

  Or: polytheism in the lower (= older) strata of the O.T. texts / monotheism in the upper strata...

  Do you have early manuscripts of Genesis that are polytheistic and later ones that are monotheistic? or do have only manuscripts that read the same as our current ones do, and liberal theories taken from these which attempt to assign certain verses as being older or younger based on the liberal hypothesis that this was the way in which the Jewish religion "evolved"? Anyway my main purpose fot this thread was to show (those who respect the Bible) that the Trinity doctrine does have a basis in the Old Testament.
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  Sentinel

  Thanks for the very informative information gleened from scripture. This only goes to reinforce my opinion that the bible gives us bits and pieces of confusion. We simply don't know how to fit it all together. Perhaps the statements themselves are truthful, but they are woven together in such a manner, that as we attempt to explain and understand, we find ourselves confused, with complicated and seeminly contradictory information.

  However, if we stand back and read the bible more as a history book, we will be able to see clearly that so much is missing, and with an open mind, we can perhaps "see" even more. Our culture has so much control over us--no matter what christian faith, everyone uses THE bible, and considers it god's word. Suppose this simply is not true? What then?

  /<
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  Narkissos

  Do you have early manuscripts of Genesis that are polytheistic and later ones that are monotheistic?

  Not of Genesis, but when you get to Deuteronomy 32:8ff you'll find something very similar to that: an original polytheistic text as the only explanation for the divergent LXX and MT...

  While you are in Genesis, I'm sure you'll point to the texts where elohim (god[s]) is construed with a plural... (3:5; 20:13; 35:7). In fact the "trinitarian evidence" may soon become just too overwhelming...

  I don't know which explanation is the most "respectful" of the texts, but the listing is interesting from my standpoint too...
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  hillary_step

  Hooberus,

  In order to understand the history of the Triad it would be as well to examine the triads of Eygpt, Mesopotamia and adjacant areas, and the Indo-European tradition, all of whom pre-date the Christian Triad by thousands of years and many of whom certainly predate the Genesis account.

  Why is so hard for traditional Christians to understand that their religion cannot be fully understood unless measured by available belief systems contemporary to itself? The acceptance of a triad or triune state had been alive in religion and myth long before it was adpoted for use by Jews and Christians.

  The alternative of course is that Satan, realizing from the beginning that God was a triune decided to pre-confuse history and by manipulating religious thought on earth spoiled the film by telling everybody the ending. Is this what you believe?

  Best regards - HS

  PS - 'Triads and Trinity' by J. Gwyn Grfiffitfths from the University Of Cardfiff is required reading before any dare utter the word 'Trinity'.
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  Leolaia

  If you want evidence of polytheism and monolatry in the OT, just read Mark Smith's book THE EARLY HISTORY OF GOD. It goes over all the evidence of El, Baal, Asherah, Resheph, etc. in the Bible and how Yahweh came to be identified with many of these and how true monotheism only appeared during or after the Exile. Even the Torah is not truly monotheistic -- it forbids the worshipping of other gods or making images of other gods. It doesn't claim that other gods do not exist. Monolatry is an intermediate stage between polytheism and monotheism.
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  DevonMcBride

  Here's what the Jews have to say about the Trinity.

  http://studentorgs.utexas.edu/cjso/Sam/One.html

  Below are some verses which prove G-d's unity and warn against any ideas of multiplicity

  I am the L-rd and there is none else. Besides Me, there is no god. I engird you though you may not know me, so that they may know, from east to west that there is none but me. I am the L-rd and there is none else I formed light and create darkness. I make weal and create woe. I the L-rd do all these things.(Is 45:5)

  And besides me there is no G-d(Is 44:6)Here O Israel the L-rd is our G-d the L-rd is One(Dt 6:4)The L-rd alone is G-d, The L-rd alone is G-d.(I Kings 19:39)I, the L-rd, who was the first and will be the last as well.(Is 41:4)Know this day and lay it to thy heart that the L-rd, He is G-d in heaven above and the earth below there is none else.(Dt 3:39)Unto you it was shown, that you might know, that the L-rd is G-d there is none else beside Him. Out of the heavens He made you, hear His voice, that He might instruct you.(Dt 4:35)I am the L-rd your G-d . . . you shall have no other gods before me.(Ex 20:2-3)Before me no god was formed, and after me none shall exist. None but Me, the L-rd, besides Me none can grant triumph. I alone foretold the triumph . . . (Is 43:10-12)O L-rd of hosts, enthroned on the cherubim! You alone are G-d of all the kingdom of the earth.(Is 37:16)Did not one G-d create us?(Mal 2:10)Do I not fill the heavens and the earth, says G-d(Jer 254:24)
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  gumby

  " This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;" Genesis 5:1

  So then we humans.......are three in one also? If god is a triad, and he made man in his image, then it follows we too are 3 in one.

  I guess Jesus was there all along waitin around for 4 thousand years to show his face too.The holy spirit must have been hibernating in Moses day.

  Gumby