by Celtic 22 Replies latest watchtower scandals
Thank you RR for your views, ok I'll do more research, perhaps though at the end of the day, we can agree to disagree.
I also find it odd, many, many references are made to key words through WT publications which although maybe not in your view, though certainly in others, are expressions indicating freemason, rosicrucion links, again, perhaps we shall have to agree to disagree with one another for now.
Cheers.
Mark
I just saw this at: http://www.exjws.net/museum/mason1.gif
RR The discourse here shown is by Pastor Russell himself, the subject is titled: The Temple of God
Look at the 3rd paragraph on the left and side and read CT Russell's very own admission. It will only take a minute or so to read.
How can you dispute this? (Rhetorical)
Kind regards
Mark
Celtic, what you need to do is read the article in length and get the gist of what Russell was trying to convey.
RR
I have only just been reading the article. Do you therefore deny that in the 3rd paragraph CT Russell himself states twice that he is a Freemason or are you just winding me up with your absurd denials of the facts in front of your own eyes?
Regards
Mark
Ok Celtic, here is a shred of truth RR apparently missed:
It is my understanding that Charles Taze Russell’s grave, located at Rosemont United Cemetery on the north side of Pittsburgh, PA, lies about 25 feet from a seven-foot tall stone pyramid with the symbol of the "cross and crown", emblems once used in the earlier publications of the WTBTS. From my research (the reading of very early WTBTS publications), I have gleaned that CT Russell once looked very closely into pyramidology and referred to the Great Pyramid as "God’s stone witness". (Studies in the Scriptures, Volume 3, Thy Kingdom Come, page 17)It is interesting that Russell's grave is directly across the street from the Greater Pittsburgh Masonic Center. We all know the pyramid is the most commonly used emblem or symbol by the Freemasons.
Pasteur Russell also expressed his agreement with "certain very precious truths that are held in part by our Masonic friends". (1913 Convention Report of the International Bible Students, page 120). Here is an excerpt from one of his Bible lectures found in the above mentioned 1913 CRIBS, which are Russells own words.
Discourse by Pastor RusselL Subjecb "THE TEMPLE OF GOD"
My TOPIC for this afternoon, dear friends, is found in the Apostle's words, "For the Temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." (1Cor. 3:17.) As Christian people, Bible, Students f'-om all denominations, it would seemthat we have something in our faith that is in sympathy and harmony with each denomination, the world over. Do our Presbyterianfriends speak of the election? We more. Do our Methodist friends have the doctrine of free grace? We more. Do our Baptist friends understand the importance ot baptism, to someextent? We more. Do our friends of the Christian denomination, and our Congregational friends, appreciate the great privileges of individuality in church government ? We more. Do our Masonic friends understand something about the Temple, and being Knights Templars, and so on? We more. Do our Roman Catholic and Church of England friends believe in a Universal church? We more. In other words, it would seem as though the message of God's Word has been more or less subdivided, and each denomination has taken hold of a piece of the truth, and around that bit of truth has gathered a good deal that we think is erroneous. But we are glad they have that little bit of truth. If they had not had some truth at least they never would have had an existence at all. So one has taken a little line of truth, and encircled it with theories and made a separate church. God never said they should make a separate church. God never said to make a Baptist church, or Presbyterian, or Methodist church, etc. The Lord intended to make one Church, and he intended that one Church should have not merely a little scrap of the truth, but all the truth. We are not finding fault with our neighbors and friends'—not at all; for we remember we had very similar ideas, and not very long ago; but, without finding any fault with anybody, we are glad that we are, coming to see a more reasonable and harmonious way, and, abandoning all church creeds and fences that so long have separated God's people, we come together upon the platform of the Bible, and everything that is in the Bible, and the Bible only. Is not that very happifying to us? Is not that what is bringing us so much rich blessing in the study of God's Word, as Intern ati oral Bible Students? It is. So I am glad to address delegates especially here from the Bay cities, and also including some thirty-five states represented in the excursion party.
I am very glad to have this particular opportunity of saying a word about some of the things in which we agree with our Masonic friends, because we are speaking in a building dedicated to Masonry, and we also are Masons. I am af r e e Mason. I am a free and accepted Mason, if I may Carry the matter to its full length, because that is what our Masonic brethren like to tell us, that they are free and accepted Masons. That is their style of putting it. Now Iam a free and accepted Mason. I trust we all are. But not just after the style of our Masonic brethren. We have no quarrel with them. I am not going to say a word against Free Masons, in fact, some, of my very dear friends are Masons, and I can appreciate that there are certain very precious truths that are held in part by our "Masonic friends. I have talked to them at times, and they have said, How do you know about all of these things? We thought nobody knew anything about these things except those who had access to our very highest logic. I said that I had been in conference with the Great MasterWorkman, the Lord himself, and I have secret information through the Holy Spirit and guidance in respect to what the Bible says, and that contains all the tnith. I believe, on every subject. And so if we talk to our Masonic friends about the Temple and its meaning, and about being good Masons, and about the Great Pyramid, which is the very emblem they use, and what the Great Pyramid signifies, our Masonic friends are astonished. One who bad been a Mason a long time recently bought a lot of books that had the Great Pyramid discussed, and sent them to I am sure a thousand Masons. He paid for them and sent them out at his own expense. He wanted the Masons to see something about the Great Pyramid. He know they were greatly interested in that. But we are not going to discuss the Great Pyramidthis afternoon. We arc going to discuss free and accepted Masonry—the Bible Masonry, my dear friends . . . "
Russell did have more than a passing interest in pyramidology. His words are clear. Either he was on some level associated with the masons or he was a total mason suckup for the purposr of selling book to "I am sure a thousand Masons". If no official documentation exists to prove that Russell was a Mason, we can rest assure by the use of the symbols on his publications that he was at least a Mason wannabe.
For what its worth.
Hunyadi
That's still only part of the sermon. You should read the rest of it. For a while I was taken in by that portion of it (a couple of years ago).
Unless I'm much mistaken, he doesn't refer to himself as an "Antient Free and Accepted Mason".
Later in the sermon he confesses that he is not a Freemason.
He just used common ground terms, to relay that which he wished to impart.
Above, I have posted an excerpt from Russell's sermon where he talked about being a Free Mason.
Yes it is true that Russell, in that particular sermon, was using the common ground thing to convey his message, however, while RR seems to have gone around the bend on this thing, THE CROSS AND CROWN, THE PYRAMID AND OTHER SUCH EMBLEMS AND SYMBOLOGY used by Russell is a clear indicator that he was highly interested if not involved with Masonry. (I will only wear fishnets if I want to be associated as a cross dresser). He did have something going with the masons cause he admits to associating with them, and most likely sucking up to them since they bought alot of his books on the Pyramid topic, so yea, RR, Russell can be associated with the Masons, the Masons and Russell can be associated to pyramidology, but not linked to its origins of the great pyramid, duh, which nobody was saying in the first place, RR.
Hunyadi
To be honest, it was no big deal if men were Freemasons, then. Quite a number were, in fact.
Even many who weren't were quite sympathetic to it.
As for the cross and crown pin, who devised it, or decided to use it for the Bible Students?
I suspect it wasn't Russell himself.
It's not unlikely that there were Masons in his company.
All I would state, however, is that that sermon is not evidence of his Masonic standing. Rather it seems to detract from such a position.
(LT - who lives deep in the heartland of Freemasonry, and has received more funny handshakes than most people have had hot dinners)
What I get out of what Russell is saying here is that these other religions claim they do certain rituals or beliefs and that "it would seem that we have something in our faith that is in sympathy and harmony with each denomination, the world over". For instance, he refers to "our Methodist friends" having the doctrine of free grace. He then adds "We more". I take it that he believed they practiced these things to. So to go on when he refers to the Free Mason's as understanding the Temple and being Knights of the Templar, he is not saying he was one but they had an understanding of being one. He may have been one at one time which explains his knowledge of Free Masonry but I don't think he is admitting to being one in this quote. Anyway that is my take on what I read here.
Will
I've never been a Freemason, but have MANY friends who are.
I know far more about the subject than I see expressed anywhere in Russell's writings and symbology.
Knowledge of a thing does not a partaker in it make.
