Questions for JW lurkers

by punkofnice 26 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  punkofnice

  Which parts of the publications are the innacurate words of 'just imperfect men', and which parts are the inerrant words from the mouthpiece of Jehovah on Earth?

  How can you trust that you are being given correct information?

  The Governing body. Are they just imperfect men or god's mouthpiece on Earth? Why can they be both at the same time?

  Why are they 'just imperfect men' or can switch to being god's mouthpiece on Earth when it suits?

  Please see the refs below:

  Nothing is interpreted but the interpretation comes from God and is then published.
  (WT 1943 July 1 pp. 202-203)
  
  Angels deliver what is published.
  (PREPARATION 1933 pp. 36-37, 64)
  
  THE WATCHTOWER publishes "no man's opinion".
  (WT 1931 November 1 p. 327; 1936 March 15 p. 85)
  
  "To it (this organization) alone...the Bible is not a sealed book." The WTS is "the only organization on earth that understands the 'deep things of God.' "
  (WT 1973 July 1 p. 402)
  
  The leaders are "spirit directed" (WT 1988 March 1 p. 10)
  
  and "God's channel."
  (WT 1969 January 15 p. 51; 1960 July 15 pp. 439, 442)
  
  "It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the 'slave' as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision."
  (WT 1957 June 15 p. 370)
  
  C. T. Russell founder of the WTS, called himself "God's mouthpiece" (WT 1906 July 15 p. 229); claimed that compared to reading his books Bible reading is "a waste of time" (WT 1910 September 15 p. 298)
  
  , and that his books "harmonize...every statement in the Bible."
  (DIVINE PLAN OF THE AGES 1886 p. 348)
  
  God uses and directs the WTS.
  (VINDICATION Book 1 1931 p. 77)
  
  "The 'slave' class has served as God's sole collective channel for the flow of Biblical truth to men on earth. Just as the early Christian congregation collectively served as the channel of communication from heaven to earth, so in our time."
  (WT 1960 July 15 p. 439)
  
  "As Jehovah revealed his truths by means of the first-century Christian congregation so he does today by means of the present-day Christian congregation. Through this agency he is having carried out prophesying on an intensified and unparalleled scale. All of this activity is not an accident. Jehovah is the one behind all of it." (WT 1964 June 15 p. 365)
  
  "Therefore, in submitting to Jehovah's theocratic organization, we must be in full and complete agreement with every feature of its apostolic procedure and requirements."
  (WT 1967 October 1 p. 593)
  
  "It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the "slave" as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision." (Watchtower 1957 Jun 15 p.370)
  
  Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book. Many persons of the world are very intelligent, capable of understanding complex matters. They can read the Holy Scriptures, but they cannot understand their deep meaning.""( Watchtower 1973 Jul 1 p.402)
  
  The point is that Christians have implicit trust in their heavenly Father; they do not question what he tells them through his written Word and organization." (Watchtower 1974 Jul 15 p.441)
  
  "We must serve Jehovah in truth, as revealed in his Word and made clear in the publications of "the faithful and discreet slave." Watchtower 1996 May 15 p.18
  
  
  
  
  w10 7/15 p.23 par.10 “The Spirit Searches Into... the Deep Things of God”
  
  When the time comes to clarify a spiritual matter in our day, holy spirit helps responsible representatives of “the faithful and discreet slave” at world headquarters to discern deep truths that were not previously understood. (Matt. 24:45; 1 Cor. 2:13)
  
  
  
  p.17: "Listening to the slave class means giving our full cooperation to its Governing Body."
  
  p.27: "Since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ completely trust the faithful and discreet slave, should we not do the same?" "The slave thus deserves our complete trust"
  
  p.28: "By all means, then, let us listen to the Christ and his trustworthy spirit-anointed brothers."
  
  
  
  ***w10 9/15 p.8 par.7 Earnestly Seek Jehovah’s Blessing ***
  
  We cannot hope to acquire a good relationship with Jehovah if we ignore those whom Jesus has appointed to care for his belongings. Without the assistance of “the faithful and discreet slave,” we would neither understand the full import of what we read in God’s Word nor know how to apply it.
  
  
  
  -- w10 9/15 p. 13 par. 8: "Similarly today, a Governing Body composed of spirit-anointed Christians contributes to the unity of the worldwide congregation. The Governing Body publishes spiritually encouraging literature in many languages. This spiritual food is based on God’s Word. Thus, what is taught is not from men but from Jehovah.—Isa. 54:13."
  
  
  
  ***w10 9/15 p.23 par.8 “Your Leader Is One, the Christ” ***
  
  The anointed and their other sheep companions recognize that by following the lead of the modern-day Governing Body, they are in fact following their Leader, Christ.
• 

  Heaven

  Which parts of the publications are the innacurate words of 'just imperfect men', and which parts are the inerrant words from the mouthpiece of Jehovah on Earth?

  How can you trust that you are being given correct information?

  These are excellent questions to ask any JW. I suspect you'll get some bs answer like 'the lite getting brighter' or the stunned deer-in-the-headlights look.
  
• 

  punkofnice

  Heaven - Yes. If there are any reactions at all. I'm thinking about how I would have answered when I was in a zombified cult state.

  I think I would have gone all circular in reasoning.
• 

  pbrow

  p.27: "Since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ completely trust the faithful and discreet slave, should we not do the same?" "The slave thus deserves our complete trust"

  This is uneffingbelievable. How could I have been so stupid??

  Good Allah, I hate those fuckers.

  pbrow
• 

  punkofnice

  pbrow - I know what you mean. All the markers are there, you just don't notice them when you're under their mind control.
• 

  The Searcher

  "Sorry Brother, haven't you seen the latest "clarified" understanding which came up yesterday on JWdotORG? You really must keep up with the ever-moving chariot by using your iPad more often!!"
• 

  Finkelstein

  Great questions. The short answer to all of this though is that the WTS. talks through both corners of its mouth

  whenever its deems necessary to support itself and those leading men who are at the top.

  Irregardless the directive or intent always remains the same.

  To use an analogy .....

  
  
• 

  Olivia Wilde

  I'm new to TTATT can someone tell me what was the false prophecy the WT gave in 1941?
• 

  Vidiot

  punkofnice - "Which parts of the publications are the innacurate words of 'just imperfect men'...?"

  Pretty much all of 'em...

  ...but hey, at least they have that in common with virtually every other piece of historical literature on the planet.

  punkofnice - "...and which parts are the inerrant words from the mouthpiece of Jehovah on Earth?"

  None, 'cause there's no such thing as inerrancy.

  Or "God's mouthpiece".
• 

  Finkelstein

  I'm new to TTATT can someone tell me what was the false prophecy the WT gave in 1941?

  Jehovah's Witnesses and their many false prophecies

  by Matt Slick

  The Witnesses make many claims in their attempt to convert you to their faith. They profess to have the only true Christian church, to be the only true representatives of God, to have the only correct Biblical teaching, and to be the only true announcers of Jehovah's coming kingdom.

  If they are the only true church and are the only true voice of God's Word, then what they say should prove to be true and especially in prophecy. When it comes to predicting the future, the Watchtower organization fails miserably. Following are some of the false predictions made over the years by the Watchtower organization. If you present these to a JW, he will probably say something like, "Those are taken out of context," or "They didn't claim to be the prophet of God," or "The light is getting brighter, and we are understanding Bible prophecy better now," etc. Make a copy of these false prophecies, found in the appendix, and give it to them to check. They are right out of the Witnesses' literature.

  Remember Deut. 18:22, "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." If someone makes a false prophecy and they have claimed to be a prophet of God, then they are false prophets and are not to be listened to. Do the Witnesses claim to be the prophet of God? Yes, they do.

  In 1972 the Jehovah's Witness Watchtower claimed to be the prophet of God.

  IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET"--"So does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? . . . This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian Witnesses . . . Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197). (See Deut. 18:21).

  • 1897 "Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874," (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 4, p. 621).
  • 1899 " . . . the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced," (The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101).
  • 1916 "The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ's Reign, began in 1873," (The Time Is at Hand, forward, p. ii).
  • 1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection," (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89).
  • 1922 "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914," (Watchtower, Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262).
  • 1923 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1923, p. 106).
  • 1925 "The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year," (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1925, p. 3).
  • 1925 "It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work," (Watchtower, Sept., 1925, p. 262).
  • 1926 "Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything," (Watchtower, p. 232).
  • 1931 "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time . . . and they also learned to quit fixing dates," (Vindication, p. 338).
  • 1941 "Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon," (Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1941, p. 288).
  • 1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? . . . Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them," (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968).
  • 1968 "Why are you looking forward to 1975?" (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1968, p. 494).