If the WT is a "money making machine"...who gets the money?

by NikL 38 Replies latest jw friends

  • Diogenesister
    Diogenesister
    They use the money to balance out the needs of those publishers/ congregations in poorer,/developing countries I would guess

    I apologize for not having the Awake no. to hand, but there was a piece written, or rarther bragging, that poor African brothers and sisters who could not afford to donate much cash would section off a piece of their land to grow veg for the Watchtower. These veg would then be sold at market and the money donated to the org. These are subsistence farmers who can barely grow enough to feed their families. Yet Watchtower takes this pittance from them every month in order to fund the "world wide work".

    How very egalitarian of them.

  • jean-luc picard
    jean-luc picard

    no car repairs, no health bills, no need to do the ironning,cooking,cleaning etc etc. travel 1st class anywhere in the world. never ever any money worries. never worry about replacing the washing machine,tv,fridge etc etc. never have to do the gardenning yourself. never need to clean your own room. never ever have the hum drum worries that normal folk have. live in a beautiful park.......

    get the picture. a life free from stress for those at the top. maybe they dont live like donald trump but they are financially a lot better of than you and I.

  • wifibandit
    wifibandit

    Yes, they like to trot out those stories from time to time.

    • “We Would Like to Say, ‘Yes!’” w04 8/1 p. 32
    THE branch office of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Nigeria recently received a letter that, in part, says the following:
    “Our son, Anderson, died when he was 14. Before his death, he was raising two chickens. He wanted to sell them and then send the money to the branch office as a contribution to the worldwide preaching work. But he died before they could be sold.
    “In view of his desire, we, his parents, raised the chickens and sold them. We are sending the money to you as Anderson’s contribution. Because of Jehovah’s promise, we are confident that we will soon—very soon—see Anderson again. We would like to say, ‘Yes!’ when he asks if we carried out his heart’s desire. Indeed, we look forward to seeing not only Anderson but also a ‘great cloud of witnesses’ who will be resurrected.”—Hebrews 12:1; John 5:28, 29.
  • darkspilver
    darkspilver

    I think what problemaddict 2 said is true: There may not be a smoking gun here. But the words from jean-luc picard above are very very true - and can perhaps be summed up as:

    overheads

    I think people severely underestimate the cost of overheads - particulary when it's 'voluntary' because people equate that with 'free' but that's far far from the truth.

    WT is a huge unwieldy organisation with so many people on it's effective 'payroll'. It all adds up - yes, even possible that more money is going out then coming in even

    In economic terms - it's not the building that costs the money - it's the staffing of the building that costs, big time.

    Even volunteers need food, shelter, warmth, monthly allowance and so forth - week-in week-out.

    There's 26,011 Bethelites - at US$500-per-month - that's US$150million-a-year

    Plus remember all the 'small' allowances WT pays out to special pioneers, missionaries, and so forth, it all adds up.

    And the regular, predictable, literature income stream is drying up - that's why WT is goading congregations to make monthly congregational resolutions to donate directly to WT - they are trying to get back that regular, predictable, income stream that's missing. They realise they can't rely on the unpredictability of individual rank and file members donating to the WWW themselves each month! It doesn't work!

    I think this also explains the fairly sudden, and ruthless, cutting back and downsizing on people, while still doing some major building works in upstate New York and UK's Essex.



    BTW I thought this was interesting background, even though it's a bit old:
    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-much-your-company-pays-to-rent-office-space-2015-05-27

  • sparrowdown
    sparrowdown

    Where is it proven that the GB live in "humble" conditions?

    The truth is none of us know how they really live as we only "know" what they want us to "know."

    Personally I would never define how they live (even the official version) as humble - or maybe I have a different definition of humble than you do.

  • OrphanCrow
    OrphanCrow
    dsp: BTW I thought this was interesting background, even though it's a bit old:
    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-much-your-company-pays-to-rent-office-space-2015-05-27

    ...if it is combined with the knowledge that Brooklyn's largest landlord was the WTS:

    ...the largest landlord in Brooklyn Heights and vicinity—the nonprofit Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, the Witnesses' business arm...
  • NikL
    NikL

    Where is it proven that the GB live in "humble" conditions?

    Good point Sparrow. I have heard it from various interviews I've heard from ex-JW ex-Bethelites. Of course I've never even been in New York much less in a GB members apt LOL

    jean-luc picard

    no car repairs, no health bills, no need to do the ironning,cooking,cleaning etc etc. travel 1st class anywhere in the world. never ever any money worries. never worry about replacing the washing machine,tv,fridge etc etc. never have to do the gardenning yourself. never need to clean your own room. never ever have the hum drum worries that normal folk have. live in a beautiful park.......

    I get that too. But it certainly isn't typical of people at the top of a major corporation to choose such a "humble"
    way of life.

    At this point I don't believe they are doing it for the money. I really think they are misguided as much as the rank and file member.

    Of course a little more research into Orphan Crows research may change that opinion. Hey I am open to new ideas :-)

  • darkspilver
    darkspilver

    Hi OrphanCrow

    the largest landlord in Brooklyn Heights and vicinity—the nonprofit Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, the Witnesses' business arm...

    Yes, I bet they were, no doubt about it - but I thought they were not actually renting out any of the properties externally? Did they get any rental income? Well I suppose apart the hotel rooms to bethel vistors?

    Instead, even with the tax breaks, they would have had 'running or operating costs' to pay - even if ultimately they benefited from a one-time sizable capital gain when sold.

  • scratchme1010
    scratchme1010

    I've seen claims over the years that WT is in the real estate, book publishing business and is a for profit enterprise at it's core.

    My claim is fairly close to what you state, only I claim that they have always been a for profit enterprise. The changes they made are just changes in their obsolete business model and their processes to keep up with the times and focus on areas that continue to make them wealthy.

    Can those of you that believe this to be the case tell me who benefits from all this wealth?

    The boards, the GB, the president, the people who are in power, sign the legal documents, and officially represent the WT. Most importantly, the WT itself as a corporation. Please understand that in the capitalist system we live in, corporations as entities have power too. The WT itself is a perfect entity with money and power to be influential.

    The governing body lives in relatively humble conditions no?

    That's very difficult to say. There is their image that they have for the JWs, there are their lives and earnings in tax records, and then there's reality. They may or may not be living in humble conditions. Furthermore, they do not need to live extravagantly to enjoy their wealth. There's a perception that wealthy people are supposed to have a lot and show that they are wealthy in a way that some think is should be evident. That's far from truth.

    I've been curious about this for a while. I believe that, yes the business does make lots of money, but profit is not the real goal as that would imply some "one" or "ones" would personally gain materially.

    Yes and no (IMO). Yes because I believe that profit is only one of the goals, though I do believe that profit is a real goal. No, because it's not so far fetch to think that "one" or "ones" would personally gain materially. Why would that be so impossible? Again, people managing the corporation assets have access to all their money, and they can pretty much do whatever they feel like doing with it without having a cent under their names. They write the checks, they sign the contracts. They meet with the auditors (that is, if they actually get audited).

    It is a mistake to think that the leadership of a cult is going to be transparent in all their actions. Some of the reasons why cults and controlling groups like the WT exist are not necessarily based on making one person or people rich. There's a lot more to it. I think it has to be seen from the perspective of what the typical gains are for cult leaders. Typically, these are the tings that they want:

    1. Money
    2. Power over other people
    3. Power over a community (being political or any other type of influential position)
    4. Feeding their egos
    5. Sex
    6. Fun over how far they can go with their charades (feeding their narcissism)

    I wonder if you could elaborate more on your thoughts. What I mean is, I get the impression that it seems far fetch to you, that some people in the GB or their higher ups may be wealthy. What are your thoughts? Also, what would be an alternative reason, in your opinion? I ask in light that what they are doing looks pretty much like what all other companies in the world impacted by the changes in society are doing, that is, changing their focus, maximizing profit, downsizing labor and maintenance, and optimizing their space.

  • John Free

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