slimboyfat joins the Methodists!

by slimboyfat 18 Replies latest members politics

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    I wondered why the service was so early at 0930, but I later found out the reason. It's because the minister has to travel and perform the service at another church at 1100. In fact he conducts three or four services each Sunday because there is a shortage of ministers for the scattered congregations in the Methodist church.

    Shortage of ministers? There's a shortage of worshippers too! (The only thing not in short supply is large church buildings, scattered across the country) At this church there were only 10 worshippers - that's including me and the minister! Everyone was at least sixty years old, and a couple much older. Apart from me, I'm not sixty.

    I got a friendly welcome, in particular from a woman whose title was "organiser" or something. I was on time so there was little time to introduce, but they told me where would be good to sit, and it was. We sat in a sort of semi-circle, with around 100 empty seats laid out optimistically behind us. This was the first Sunday of advent, but they didn't seem surprised to have so few in attendance.

    The service insitally took a somewhat unfamiliar form. The minister read out portions of instruction and comment from a Methodist service book, and the small congregation repeated refrains back. He also read out formulaic prayers and blessings. Then we sang some songs, including one apparently written by John Wesley himself. For music they had a computer in the corner which played loud organ music when the "organiser" used the mouse to select and click the track. I didn't think much of the hymns. They were nothing compared with the rousing Pentecostal hymns I heard the week before.

    The building itself is huge, well decorated and maintained, and utterly dwarfs the small congregation that meets there. In addition to the main church hall, there are many other rooms and halls, and a kitchen. None of it seemed much in use, but still well maintained.

    There followed two Bible readings read by two women. There were four men (including me and the minister) and six women present. One of the women selected the wrong passage on her tablet (it was supposed to be Mark 13) and switched to a print Bible instead. One of the other men said it didn't really matter and she should read the wrong passage if she wants, with a wink. The minister disagreed in a good natured way and handed a copy of the Bible opened at Mark 13.

    After that there was a brief sort of sermon from the minister that mainly consisted of some experiences from ministering to a couple of ill members in the congregation. Clearly two individuals who might have been present with the other 8 in the past. The minister also said that the Christian calls out to God and asks: "why don't you do something?" This is what we ask God in times of distress, whether personal or in the community or nation. It was quite a good short sermon. He seemed a genuine minister who cares for the church, its people, and has a sense of the majesty of God. During the service the minister talked about the need to "grow the church", but not with much hope for success, from what I was able to tell.

    Then we had communion. I was a bit nervous about this. What would I do? Would they refuse to share with me, as the Christadelphians? Or would they offer and I should decline? I decided I would simply follow their prompts. First the minister said we must make peace with our brothers, before communion, as it says in scripture. So we all shook hands with each other first. As it turned out they shared communion with me without question. The minister handed me a small morsel of bread and I took it. We considered the sacrifice of Jesus and I took an individual thimble of Ribera wine too. I'm not sure if they are relaxed about sharing communion or they just assumed I was a baptised Christian.

    At the end of the service I attempted to put the printed A4 programme in my pocket. But the woman next to me told me to leave it behind because it contained the programme for next week also. And they needed it apparently, including my copy. All eight of them. So no souvenir for me from this church.

    After the service the minister asked me if I have a Methodist background. I said no and he seemed disappointed. I get the sense that they don't encounter much interest in their church from non-Methodists. So anyone who doesn't have a background in the Methodist church is likely only to be a transient interlocutor. They may have been hoping that I was a Methodist from elsewhere who was moving into the church.

    I couldn't stay long after the service because I had to get to the Unitarian meeting which was a 20 minute drive away. But as I was leaving the church organiser invited me to another Methodist service in a nearby town that afternoon at 3pm. I said okay and made my way.

    So at at quarter past three I arrived late at the second Methodist service of the day (I was delayed because I got into conversation after the Christadelphian meeting at 1.30pm) in a nearby town. This meeting was a combined service for the whole "circuit" as they call it. This circuit includes most of the west of Scotland as it turns out, and there were about 50 people in attendance. This included a small Christian band who were hired to provide the music. (One of the ministers forgot their names - which was a bit awkward) Again the hall was huge and dwarfed the small (combined) congregation. This hall had slightly more signs of use (full notice board and so on) than the other Methodist church I attended at 0930 in the morning. The service included small talks from about four different ministers. Apparently all these ministers are employed full time, despite rapidly shrinking Methodist congregations. I found out in conversation that a Methodist congregation in my hometown closed down (after around 200 years) only a few weeks ago. I missed the chance to visit it!

    After the service I chatted again with the church "organiser" and a few of the ministers, including one who gave me a business card, and expressed regret that my local Methodist church had just closed town. It's been sold, and the tiny congregation that remained (who knows, maybe a couple of individuals at most) joined with the local Episcopalian congregation, a church which is also in decline. One minister suggested I might like to try the United Reformed Church rather than the Episcopalian church. I am not sure why. The "organiser" told me that her son lives in Aberdeen and is an elder in the Church of Scotland. She would have preferred that he remain in the Methodist tradition but she can tolerate Church of Scotland. They are not as friendly as Methodists, and more Calvinist. I think I know what she means, it's not entirely doctrinal.

    There was a terrible sense of decline, almost impending doom for the church, in all the conversations. I sensed sadness at the loss of community, tradition and history. And the living sense of Jesus in the community of the Methodist church. During the songs for example, one of the ministers moved his arms in enthusiasm, as if to rouse the congregation around him (and by extension those absent) to greater participation. One woman alone raised a right arm in silent acclaim to Jesus, in the manner I have observed is common to Pentecostals. The rest of the congregation was reserved.

    The congregstion was mostly white, except from one African and an Asian couple. The Asian man had what looked like an Islamic beard, and so I thought for a moment that the service may have an interfaith component. But in the end I think he was an Asian Christian who simply has a large beard.

    Methodists are in rapid decline in Scotland. A recent church newsletter says there are now fewer than 2000 members of the Methodist church in Scotland. There are probably fewer than that who attend roughly 30 very small congregations across the country. At a rough estimate I would say they may have 500 active members, mostly very old. Yet there are around a dozen or so ministers who still just about have jobs in the church. I sense there is some anxiety, not only about dwindling congregations, but also about dwindling job prospects for those not quite ready to retire. One minister explained to me that he receives a stipend in advance for his role, rather than a wage. I am not sure exactly what the significance of the distinction is. But he felt there was an important distinction to be made. He also spoke some German with me because he has spent some time in Germany and I tried my best. He also worked as a minister in the Caribbean for a few years. I hadn't realised there were Methodists in the Caribbean.

    One statistician has projected that the Methodist church in Britiain will decline to the point of extinction by the end of the 2030s. I imagine the church in Scotland will struggle to survive even that long. There has been much discussion of the Methodists rejoining the Anglican Church in England and the Episcopal church in Scotland, but it hasn't happened yet. If they leave it much longer they won't have much Church left for reunification. I guess it will be about apportioning and selling assets at some point. And looking after retired ministers. Oh yes, there was some discussion about manses and inspections that I didn't follow either. (In Scotland a "manse" is the name of the house the minister lives in) This is clearly a concern: what to do with the property.

    After the service I talked with a man who plays violin for the national orchestra. I checked out his page on the orchestra's website afterwards. He said that he learned Elgar's violin concerto for his exam while a student. I said that's my favourite piece of music. He said they are playing Mendelssohn's violin concerto this weekend. I might go and see it with my dad. He said he has been a Methodist all his life and he worships at the main Methodist church in Woodlands in the west end. He said the congregation is very small, only around 20 people. He actually seemed a bit alarmed when I said I had been a JW. I don't know who or what they imagined me to be. But he was friendly overall.

    I had tea and biscuits that was on offer. Then I went to the toilet. When I came out of the toilet they were closing the church and I was nearly the last to leave. It was the Asian Christian and his wife who was locking the large doors.

  • steve2
    steve2

    Informative account SBF. They are in decline in the West!

    Three interesting facts about Methodists.

    I understand that Chuck Russell's parents were Methodists.

    My maternal grandparents, who converted to the Bible Students around 1926 were Methodists and married in that church.

    The Methodist Church is one of the biggest and strongest religious groups in Singapore, the place I once worked and still divide my time between (New Zealand is my home country).

  • compound complex
  • compound complex
    compound complex

    SBF:

    The church pictured above -- First Methodist Episcopal -- was where I received a Bible of my own, viz., American Standard Version. I was a little guy but walked there every Sunday with a companion. Parents stayed home.

  • knowsnothing1
    knowsnothing1

    I love reading your journey to the different churches around you. I myself have been to the Russian Orthodox Church, the Catholic Church, and am currently attending an Evangelical Church in Spanish.

    The Orthodox Church had such a beautiful, heavenly sounding choir. It's hard to describe. I also didn't understand a word they were saying. They are very into rituals, and have a lot of icons within their Church. It was a small church, house size. There is the worship area where parishioners have to stand (there were only a few seats surrounding the walls, intended for the elderly or disabled.) They had the altar in the back, and the priest would go to what is like the backstage or VIP of the altar as part of the ritual. It was almost as if he were accessing the holy of holies or something. There would be a formulaic phrase the priest would say, and the parishioners at times would make the cross feature on themselves. The choir would come in every once in a while. I'm tempted to go back and record the choir, it was so beautiful. They also had communion, very similar to the Catholic Church in many aspects. However, the priests are allowed wives. After the service, they had a hall bigger than the place of worship, like a lunch area. The food was delicious! If I recall they had borscht and then raviolis. I had attended with my father and he is disabled thanks to a stroke he had many years ago which left him with his left side paralyzed. He was eating and he dripped some food on his chin. One of the other priests got mad I didn't clean the drip off his chin. I was so embarrassed. It's obvious they take family and respect very serious.

    I also went to a Catholic church. I had gone many times as a small child with my mom, but each church is different. This one was rather big and had many, many parishioners(I would say on the order of 300). It had the typical long pews, with book slots on the back, and also those pop-up, cushioned, knee rests. They had a hymnal as well as another book used to follow along for the sermon. The sermon was nice, the priest tried to encourage sharing the love of Christ, basically preaching the Gospel to others. They base the sermon off a reading of one of the 4 Gospels. I used to have a warped view that the Catholics barley used scriptures. He also mentioned Catholics being persecuted in other countries and named those that were martyred for their faith. He prayed for them. For the singing, there was a lead singer with a microphone, the music was played with an organ, all the parishioners sang. There was a choir that accompanied them, but they weren't on stage, I'm not sure where they were. The music was quite beautiful, and the message of the hymns themselves were giving praise to the Lord. I thought they would sing to Mary, but they didn't. There was a moment where we were to shake hands with our neighbors and offer them peace. They had communion, much like the Orthodox, and that was only available to believers. There was a mix of young and old, families with children, many different races as well. After the service ended though, there was no sense of community. I'm sure the few faithful dedicated stayed to talk, but the majority seemed to rush out. I was impressed with the building, the sermon was good, but I don't agree with many Catholic teachings. At the end of the day, they have magisterium over sola scriptura and the infallible pope, not that any of that was mentioned.

    This Evangelical Church I'm attending is where I hope to be baptized. It's a small church, they have services 3 times a week! So far I've gone only two times on Sundays, but I agree with just about everything they teach and their style of worship I consider to be rather well grounded in Scripture. They great each other as family, they welcomed me as family, the Sunday service is worship. They begin with prayer, although I was surprised at first. While the pastor is praying, they pray as well in whispers. Some are saying their own things, others merely giving an amen when they agree with what the pastor has said. After that is finished, there is worship through song. They have a projector that projects the lyrics on the wall and the parishioners sing along. There are two leading singers with microphones, and a live band consisting of a man on drums and another on keyboard (he's also with a mic). The songs are really simple and repetitive, but all based on scriptures and giving praise to God and to Christ. One of them said if you had the faith the size of a mustard seed, you would tell the mountain to move. They were lively and lovely songs, and some would clap along and others would raise their hands (probably similar to the Pentacostals). There was also prayer lead by a woman elder dedicated to all the individuals of the congregation, for any needs or difficulties they were having. After service, there is food in a communal hall. This very last Sunday they had communion with little crackers and with very small plastic cups full of grape juice. Young people participate as well, and so I suppose it's done that way for them. I'm not sure what their stance on alcohol is, I will ask them. I presented the request of baptism to the lead pastor, he congregated with another 5 members that constitute the body of elders (4 men, 2 women total) and they said they saw no inconvenience to it. They will be asking questions this coming Wednesday, but the plan is for baptism next Sunday.

    I dedicated my life to Christ 11/3, and now simply wish to make it formal with baptism, as scripture requires.

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    Welcome to the forum, knowsnothing1:

    Your well-written and heartfelt testimony reminds me of how I once felt about my worship of God. Thank you for sharing.

  • Heartsafire
    Heartsafire

    There's a small, local Methodist church where I live in the USA. They are very friendly people. Some are my neighbors. The Methodist church here also allows anyone to take communion with them.

  • knowsnothing1
    knowsnothing1

    Hi Coco, thanks for welcoming me, I've actually been a member since about 2010. I stopped coming here since 2012, but would lurk every once in a while.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    I enjoy your reports SBF ... it is the kind of research I would like to do, but present family commitments make that not possible ( it would not be worth divorce! )

    One of the few things I knew about Methodists is that they do not drink alcohol. I don't know if that is universally followed these days. I will look for your report on Pentecostals.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Blues, I have visited two Pentecostal groups. One a small group of 15 people who met in a hotel. And the other a small cult like sect with around 120 in attendance on the day I was there. I found both of these visits problematic and a bit disturbing actually. I am not sure what to write about it and I'm slightly concerned that a local leader of the cultish group may have me on some sort of radar now. I have since found out that this group has problems with shunning former members who have a website and online support. I may write a thread about it at some point.

    https://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?14,11374,page=1

    http://www.latigo214.info/index.html

    Thank you knowsnothing for the descriptions. You make me want to visit an Orthodox Church, but I have difficulty finding one. And I'm not sure if they are accustomed to accommodating non members.

    Thanks Steve and CoCo for the picture and comments. Methodism in Scotland and Britain is apparently quite different than other places. In the United States it seems to be a large and vibrant church. In the UK Methodism is in steep decline. Thanks Hearts, I'm glad I didn't seem to offend them with partaking. I tried to do whatever it seemed they expected.

    There is a detailed statistical report on Methodists in Scotland here.

    http://www.methodist.org.uk/media/2666629/stats-2016-mem-31.pdf

    The church I attended claims 26 members but only 8 were in attendance. The church in Woodlands has 42 members, but I was told fewer than 20 in attendance. Over a one year period their membership declined by more than 5%. That rate of loss can't be sustained for long. I don't think the Methodist church can survive much longer than a decade in Scotland. Unless there are surprising new developments, of course.

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