We don't need to know an invisible spirit. He needs to become known to us. That is the whole premise of the bible.
Lurking JWs: Do people really need to know and use the word "Jehovah" or other language equivalents, to truly know God?
by Island Man 20 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Half banana
He needs to become known to us. That is the whole premise of the bible.
On which evidence did you get that idea from Star Trek Angel?
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sir82
"Undoubtedly, you like to be called by your personal name rather than by a title, such as “man,” “mister,” “madam,” or “woman.” A name helps to distinguish you as an individual."
This? This is their argument?
Specious doesn't even begin to describe it.
For those who enjoy watching barrel-fish get shot:
Yes, indeed, my name does "help to distinguish me as an individual".
Why do I need to be "distinguished as an individual"?
Because there are 8 billion other persons on the planet.
Are there 8 billion "almighty gods" in existence in the universe? 8 billion "grand creators"?
No?
Then why is it so essential to "distinguish as an individual" the only one in existence?
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Aroq
ok, here is one that I have asked many JW's and they usually turn on me real quick. In the Bible teach book, it says that "true" worshipers teach others about God's name, his purposes, and his qualities. - pg 148. on page 147 it spells out the qualities of "true" worshipers.
ok, now here is my question, if this defines what a true worshiper is, were Abraham, Issac and Jacob "true" worshipers?
The answer is usually yes, of course they were. I then ask them to read Exodus 6:2. Here is Exodus it clearly states that God told Moses that He appeared to Abraham, Issac and Jacob as God Almighty, and God never told them His name. So the revelation of God's name was only from Moses onward. Since Abraham, Issac and Jacob never knew God's name, Tehy never spoke of God's name and made it known, were they "true" worshipers or not? According to the Bible teach book, they are not.
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Vanderhoven7
The WTS takes the liberty of adding Jehovah's name to the NT 237 times claiming that they have a right to do so when NT authors quote from the OT where the Tetragrammaton is found. However over half of the 237 instances are not quotes from the OT. -
StarTrekAngel
Half Banana...
I understand that to be the general context of bible writings. Wether you believe or not, analyzing the book, in my opinion, shows that God had to show himself to the world and prove himself as well. He could not expect people to know him without evidence. It was basically a response to the questions posed above (how do you get to know an invisible spirit). You can't. The invisible spirit would have to make himself known to you and then you may desire to know more and continue to nurture the relationship further. You can not love what you don't know.
The bible has several passages in which people (Abraham was one of them), meet this God for what it seems the first time. True, the bible's first account of God talking to Abraham does not provide details of the communication. But later on, Abraham sees a man, whom he recognizes as God. Never the less, every other encounter like these from different biblical characters, are accompanied by some kind of "prove me that you are God and you are capable of delivering your promise". Some miracle that convinced men this God was who he claimed to be. Very much the same way you prove your credit worthiness by keeping your debt in check, God kept his worthiness by showing his followers what he was capable of, time and time again. This way he showed himself to the world and showed his followers he could very much fit the job of a God who claims to have created the universe.
Having been absent from the human race for thousands of years (correct me if I am wrong but I don't think he's ever been absent for so long before) and having many generations of humans pass without testimony of his fame, God would have to present himself again and make himself known if he plans to have any followers for much longer.
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Vidiot
Do people really need to know and use the word "Elizabeth" (or other language equivalents) to truly know The Queen?
:wink:
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Lieu
Not a lurker but, no. One only needs to ask oneself:
Did Christ or his disciples run around using "Jehovah" all willy nilly? Or did they, like all Hebrews of their time use "heavenly Father"? (Something sacred isn't for every day use.)
Was that the name given to all through which we must get saved or something?
In what name did the Apostles and disciples heal and expel demons?
What name were they threatened about using?
What name were the early Christians proclaiming throughout their world?
Who the hell calls their father by his first name except disrespectful children?
Also, that name "Jehovah" isn't even correct. There are no "j's" in any branch of Syriac languages. It's like you continuously calling someone named Frank, Stanley. How annoying is that for Frank?
Just because you'd like to say his name that way does not make it his name. That has got to be ever soooo annoying.
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David_Jay
It is a pagan or heathen custom to address a divinity by their name. Judaism was unique among the ancients not only in introducing a single deity without an image, but to create a religious system in which the less something was used, the holier it was considered.
This went for addressing the Hebrew God by name. By the time Second Temple Judaism was at its pinnacle, Jesus of Nazareth passed on the same tradition to his followers, saying: "When you pray, do not go on babbling endlessly as the pagans (Gentiles) who think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need even before you ask him."--Matthew 6:7-8.
Gentile religious systems often had the curious belief that required petitions to be offered uttering the proper name and/or titles of a deity lest the prayer go unanswered. Some pagans believed that a deity would not focus their attention on people unless they were addressed by name and that the name was properly pronounced, even if it was in a language uncommon to the worshiper. Long lists of divine names and possible pronunciations had been devised by some in the hope that uttering the list of names would force a response from the pagan god. The repetitions sounded like babbling, which is the word that appears in Matthew 6:7 that gets rendered by some as merely "repeating the same words," which is not the same thing.
Jesus said that such endless babbling of names was not necessary to get God's attention because it was always focused on his creation, so much so that God "knows what you need even before you ask him." Making sure you uttered God's name, pronounced it correctly or used it enough times in a prayer was not necessary.
Holy things in Judaism were generally placed out of sight and used rarely, if at all, by Jews. Hence the Holy of Holies of the Tabernacle and later the Temple was never seen or used by most Jews, even though it was at their center of life. The items within, such as the Ark of the Covenant, and the items in the Ark itself, were not only unseen by most but forbidden to be touched. It is of interest that items associated with God were treated this way in Scripture as far back as the forbidden fruit of Genesis. Though it was constantly present, it was neither to be eaten or even touched. (Genesis 3:3) Most outstanding was the Sabbath, a whole day which because it was holy was not to be used.
For this reason, the Jews to this day rarely utter the Divine Name, if at all. It is their custom to use holy things rarely unlike mundane things which get used frequently, often for various purposes.
It should be added that Jesus followed his instruction on not praying like the pagans with a petition calling for the sanctification or hallowing of God's name, substituting "Father" instead of pronouncing YHWH. (Matthew 6:9) The repetitious use of a deity's name was the opposite of what it meant to treat God's name as holy.
While the name of God is indeed written thousands of times in Scripture, just because something is there all the time doesn't mean one should use it as one uses other more common things, at least for the non-pagan Jews. Again the Ark stood there constantly, the tablets upon which the Ten Commandments were written were inside, the fruit of God's tree in Eden had fruit that could be used as food, and every Sabbath was a day just waiting to be used.
But unlike pagans and worshippers of demons, God's people don't use holy things as one would use a mundane thing, even when it comes to names.