Australia - Selling Off Assets

by Pants of Righteousness 30 Replies latest jw friends

  • StephaneLaliberte
    StephaneLaliberte
    And good luck spinning "paying back Caesar's things to Caesar" as "persecution"

    That's exactly what they did when France tried to tax them at 60%. They ended up loosing. Now that I am out, I don't even know how that 60% was going to work. We were told it was a broad general 60% on all donations, but I bet it wasn't. Probably something like: 60% of the money you don't show expenses for. Still, Watchtower is to be treated as a business, it should pay the same taxes rates as any other business, which is certainly not 60%.

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    @Stephane: The tax was on money that was being off-shored to the US. In France, charities have to demonstrate that they are using the money for charity in France.

    Instead they were sending it to the US and claiming that it was being redistributed worldwide for charity, but the French government cannot get visibility in US charities.

  • Corney
    Corney

    I find this article sensationalist and poorly researched:

    1. "since the announcement of the Royal Commission on November 12, 2012 JW has ... Grown from a handful of charities to 836 separate small basic religious charities." This statement is misleading. First, those "new" entities actually existed long before 2012 - as congregations and (legally) as unincorporated assotiations. Secondly, the suggested link between the announcement of the ARC and registration of congregation charities likely doesn't exist. As a reminder, in 2012 Australia adopted the ACNC Act which substantially changed its charity law and, among others, made registration a requirement for income tax exemptions and other benefits.

    2. The article hardly shows any "sell-off" in Australia. Two dozens or so Kingdom Halls, out of 455 (the number reported by Watchtower two years ago), sold over nearly a decade - how does it amount to "selling off assets", taking into account that no branch property were reported to be sold of listed for sale, and the org is expanding its branch facilities in Sydney?

    3. The worldwide property sales figures are misleading too. The WHQ relocation project was planned as early as 2005, if not earlier, so any attempt to draw a link between the Brooklyn sales (which make up almost 90% of the reported global sales amount) and recent events are based on flawed premises. Also, in the UK Watchtower (namely, WTB and IBSA) has substantially increased its assets, despite the announced inquiries and lawsuits.

    4. There is no evidence that child abuse is more prevalent among JWs than in other communities or institutions, as the article suggests. It is incorrect to compare the ARC numbers because in case, of, say, Catholics they refer to abusers in position of trust (like priests, nuns etc.), while in case of Watchtower the Commission included all perpretators who ever were JWs, including lay members, in its statistics.

    5. Finally, it's sad the journalists uncritically report speculative and unfounded claims made by people like Steven Unthank - who, for example, was once able to make four false statements in a single paragraph, not to mention other controversies. I'm sorry, but I cannot trust their judgment or expertise.

    I would be glad to read an investigative report into the organization's finances, but this article has nothing to do with investigative journalism. It's a kind of don't-check-just-share journalism.

  • Newly Enlightened
    Newly Enlightened

    Check out pg 4 of the Australia 2019 Financial record. (Link below)

    $28 MILLION in income then they shipped over $21 Million to "Donations & Overseas aid???


    https://acncpubfilesprodstorage.blob.core.windows.net/public/77f70f2a-39af-e811-a963-000d3ad244fd-153f736b-a54f-4e99-b1c0-fa9292726c2a-Financial%20Report-6940753c-9b1b-ea11-a811-000d3ad1cc03-2019_WTA_Annual_Report.pdf

  • Newly Enlightened
    Newly Enlightened

    Then on this tab, All that money they've taken in and they're $1.5 MILLION in the RED?

    (Link below)

    https://www.acnc.gov.au/charity/db994d2f8dec3cdfdbca01e8c8e28da9#ais-ede90cc9adb58898223925365b9a502a

  • Listener
    Listener

    Now there are claims being made over at reddit that the Watchtower have said that they can't join the redress scheme because they don't have any money.

    They have also been claiming that there is an investigation into the Watchtower over this leaving others to think it is a Government investigation whereas it's simply a journalists/newspapers investigation who only hav as much as we do to speculate on.

    Its getting out if hand and some ex JWs are hyping up what amounts to speculation and guess work. This is not good journalism and it's not clever on the part of some ex JWs to read more into this.

    Even Winston from Watchtower Examination was nearly caught up with this hype until he carefully examined the information he had. He has just downloaded a much more level headed video on the situation.

  • Listener
    Listener

    Last year there were new standards introduced in Australia that require charities and religious organisations to keep closer tabs on how the money they send overseas is being properly spent by that third party. They are to keep sufficient records to demonstrate the money sent is not being used fraudulently. Although they aren't required to lodge this information, they may be asked by the ACNC to look at it.

    https://www.acnc.gov.au/node/4755486

    If there is sufficient cause the ACNC may be encouraged to investigate. The fact that they are not joining the redress scheme and are selling off Assets and sending a huge proportion of their earnings overseas may encourage the ACNC to do this but nothing has been announced to date.

    Given that the requirement is that the Australian Branch must be able to present those records will require Watchtower Headquarters to provide them with this information, something they have unlikely done in the past. It means that they are now partly accountable to one of their branches which does not fit in with their theocracy structure.

  • william hahn
    william hahn

    Hey guys i havent been on this forum for quite a few years but figured after the news article last weekend i had better. Just read through some of the comments above which are a little disheartening. The reporter Natalie has at least put the subject on the radar more than it has. I agree somewhat with Corney above but not all. We had researched over many years the WTS here in Australia particularly from the announcement of the RC in 2011 onwards. To play the Devils advocate the WTS hasnt done anything illegal with its donations. Morally they have some issues to address. I have made a short video to describe why i say that :
    https://youtu.be/geOClOT0kso

    My name and photo only appeared in the online edition behind a Pay Wall. I think it takes an ex jw journalist to present this topic the right way. The WTS dismissed it offhand - which they always would.
    But if the WTS dont sign onto the redress scheme at the end of the month they "may" face tighter scrutiny from the ACNC and the Tax Office - fingers crossed.

  • Corney
    Corney

    Newly Enlightened, have you noticed that AIS's submitted by Watchtower Australia clearly indicate: between 2014 and 2019, it spent A$73.5 million in grants and donations made for use IN Australia, and only A$17.7 million (less than 20%) - in grants and donations made for use OUTSIDE Australia?

    StephaneLaliberte, there is no need to speculate. Everyone can read the ECHR judgment and check the facts: the 60% tax was imposed on all donations (sections 12, 14) and the JW organization won that case - the Court unanimously found that there was no proper legal basis for the tax.

    Anony Mous, your claim that "the tax was on money that was being off-shored to the US" isn't supported by court decisions I examined. Can you provide any proof?

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Thank you Corney—a very informative corrective post.

    Most journalism stinks. Whenever you happen to know directly about something that is reported in the media, it is shockingly apparent how lazy and stupid most journalism is. It raises the question, if they don’t get things right that I happen to know about, what are the chances they get anything else right?

    The media has been shocking during this pandemic too, repeating official statements against masks without question, and on the origins of the virus. Where is investigative journalism?

    Having said all that, I would be totally surprised if Watchtower hasn’t taken at least some measures to mitigate financial loss. But this article doesn’t demonstrate it. It would require more intelligence and hard work if anyone was to get a clearer picture of what is going on.

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