Dec 2018 Watchtower Third Heaven & Paradise

Listener

A QFR in the Watchtower asks "

n what sense was the apostle Paul “caught away to the third heaven” and “into paradise”?—2 Cor. 12:2-4."

They've been flip flopping regarding this, stating that it is Paul talking about himself to Paul talking about the congregation and back again to Paul talking about himself.

It appears that three years ago David Splane gave a talk during the convention explaining their latest ideas and it has taken all this time for it to get into print.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/280814/new-light-3rd-heaven

In summary the article states

To summarize:
“The third heaven” mentioned at 2 Corinthians 12:2 is likely the Messianic Kingdom in the hands of Jesus Christ and the 144,000, the “new heavens.”—2 Pet. 3:13.
It is “the third heaven” because the Kingdom is a superlative, an elevated, form of rulership.
The “paradise” into which Paul was “caught away” in vision likely refers to (1) the physical Paradise to come on earth, (2) the spiritual paradise that will exist then, which will be more extensive than the spiritual paradise that exists now, and (3) “the paradise of God” in heaven that will coexist in the new world.
Accordingly, the new world will be a combination of the new heavens and the new earth. It will be a new arrangement, including both the heavenly Kingdom government and mankind serving Jehovah on a paradise earth.

They are not sure what it means but since the word 'third' is used they think the paradise that is referenced in the scripture has three meanings.

EdenOne also made a comment about this new light that was introduced at the Convention four years ago and his records show a different idea to the threefold meaning of heaven than mentioned in the current Watchtower. Which means they've tweaked their own ideas since. He said -

The Bethel speaker then explained that the "paradise" seen by Paul is a three-fold reallity: a) A paradise in heavens that will be the reward for the 144.000 anointed christians; b) the present "spiritual paradise" among Jehovah's people; c) the future paradise on earth. He repeated this twice for good measure.

waton

and how about Jesus saying to the evildoer: :"You will be with me in Paradise" where is Paul in all that?"

as to the quoted texts: never heard such an evasive. meaningless word salad.

smiddy3

the present "spiritual paradise" among Jehovah's people;

If their is a present Spiritual Paradise among Jehovah`s people on earth then why are so many Brothers and sisters leaving ?

Why are their so many Child sexual abuse cases coming to the attention of lawmakers around the world ?

Why is their such a push for more "worldly Lucre" to fill there coffers?

Why are their so many marriage breakups among Jehovah`s Witnesses? stress and mental illnesses?

And why does the G.B. keep changing their mind about what is the "truth" using the excuse that its New Light ?

edit to add : What is the first Heaven ?

What is the second Heaven ?

Do we also have a first ,second,and third earth ?

resolute Bandicoot

The greatest con man that every lived - mohammed read this verse and knew how to cash in, he promised his followers that if they participated in jihad by killing un believers, they would go direct to the Seventh Heaven where they would have a permanent erection and be serviced by 72 young girls (and boys) who's virginity would be miraculously restored every day.

The number of people in the world that believe this out number us (dubs and ex dubs) more than 1000:1 Think about this.

resolute Bandicoot

Smiddy3 said - Why are their so many marriage breakups among Jehovah`s Witnesses? stress and mental illnesses?

Oh yeah, I know soooo many fragile and broken people.

smiddy3

I`ll bet a lot of current Elders and ex Elders know that to be true also .So much for a Spiritual Paradise .

pale.emperor

...they would go direct to the Seventh Heaven where they would have a permanent erection and be serviced by 72 young girls (and boys) who's virginity would be miraculously restored every day.

I dont know why Jihadists would want 72 virgins. Sex with a virgin isnt a prize, it's horrible.

Give me two fire-breathing whores anyday of the week!

pale.emperor

From Wikipedia:

New Testament
In 2 Corinthians Paul the Apostle writes, "I know a person in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know; God knows. And I know that such a person—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know; God knows—was caught up into Paradise and heard things that are not to be told, that no mortal is permitted to repeat."[6] According to E. W. Bullinger, the Greek says "caught away", not "caught up" possibly reflecting Jewish beliefs that Paradise was somewhere other than the uppermost heaven.[7]
Ideas about the system of "heavens" held by Jews and Christians in first-century communities are also evident in the non-canonical Second Book of Enoch (see previous section).
New Testament apocrypha
According to the Apocalypse of James,[8] John the Baptist dwells in the Third Heaven.

It seems Paul was familiar with, and believed in, the apocryphal book of Enoch. The idea of heaven and paradise being the same thing makes much more sense to me without Watchtower goggles on. According to Islam, each level of heaven is made of different things, the third heaven being made of pearl.

Interesting. Complete bullshit, but interesting.

Bad_Wolf

The secrets of enoch, and other books from dead sea scrolls explain what those things meant.

http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/pseudepigrapha/enochs2.htm

The 1st heaven is our atmosphere, and supposedly a great sea was there. Clouds, etc. t

The 2nd heaven is a great dark prison. The angels that rebelled in noahs time are there. (possibly referenced in Revelation, the pits of darkness)

The 3rd heaven is where garden of eden is at, tree of life, and many heavenly city visions in that area.

4th heaven is the workings of the sun and stars and how they rotate. It's interesting how accurate it was with astronomy. It notes the 28 year cycle of the sun, etc.

5th heaven is another prison, those who rebelled prior to the events of the great flood, whom those are held in the 2nd heaven prison.

6th heaven arch angels and where deeds of men recorded, etc.

7th heaven cherubs

8th heaven 12 constellations of the circle of the firmament (144,000 may somehow be related here, 12 tribes, etc)

9th heaven heavenly homes of the 12 constellations

10th heaven God's throne

Acluetofindtheuser

the present "spiritual paradise" among Jehovah's people;
If their is a present Spiritual Paradise among Jehovah`s people on earth then why are so many Brothers and sisters leaving ?

I heard someone say that the real condition is a wandering in the wilderness, not a spiritual paradise.

The best candidates for the levels of heaven are:

1. Where the birds and clouds reside.

2. The solar system and galaxies.

3. The spirit realm

Paul had a crazy dream when writing to the Corinthians. He wasn't sure how he got there in the vision. It was a vague experience and it had no relevance to his ministry. 2 Corinthians 12:1-7 (first half of 7) makes no point and no sense. The second half of verse 7 and on make sense and should stand alone. That first part should have been left out and filed with the Apocrypha.

Dec 2018 Watchtower Third Heaven & Paradise

New Testament

New Testament apocrypha

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