What was there before the Big Bang? (page 5)

cofty

Krauss is a science fiction writer. - Fishy

Actually he is a very serious physicist. Of course you have not read his book but somehow you are qualified to critique the science.

Did energy (matter) exist before the "big bang?"

No

Did location or space exist before the big bang?

No

Did time exist without space before the big bang?

No

What in the world exploded into the big bang?

There was no explosion

Did any laws or information exist before the big bang?

No

Is there some primordial substance that is the source of of the universe and everything in it?

No

prologos

Cofty's Quote: Not only can something arise from nothing, but most often the laws of physics require that to occur. - [ Professor] Lawrence Krauss .

Einstein's joking question " did the Lord have any choice in the --- Laws he made?" as mentioned before:

Laws , or their embodiments, definitions, defining equations do not arise by themselves. There were no modern laws, whether they are considered asinine or not, in our civilisations. Laws are a product of intelligence, and to a lesser degree is their discovery. Well functioning laws are a sign of great intelligence imho.

There are many examples where events, entities, time, energy, laws are seriously considered as possibilities outside our own discernable universe. Our Columbus instincts will not rest.

Fisherman

somehow you are qualified to critique the science.

Science fiction about what existed before the creation of the universe is not science.

No

How do you know?

There was no explosion

in terms of matter ( re:pressure temperature density), if no matter existed yet to explode, it did not, but in terms of expansion and dispersion of the contents of the universe suddenly doubling in size every fraction of a second, it is just a matter of semantics -but you are correct, according to what scientists think at this time describes the big bang, it was not an explosion in any physical sense as setting off a bomb. (this is a great point you made.)

Mephis

Laws are a product of intelligence

Scientific laws describe how things are and how they interact. In fact, scientific laws actually require God not existing because if he did then the laws stop being laws. They're only laws if they work all the time, and God playing about with them kind of messes with that. You can't reliably plan how to send a rocket to the moon if you don't know whether or not God's going to change how gravity works because he's feeling grumpy that day.

So scientific laws say nothing about requiring an intelligence to make them. They just are, in the same way that 2+2 making 4 just 'is'.

Lee Elder

Energy is probably a constant - having always existed. Given the right conditions it can become matter. Those conditions are largely a matter of speculation.

prologos

Me phis: "--They're only laws if they work all the time, and God playing about with them kind of messes with that.

Who says he/she is messing with the laws? The bible says so? It is all discredited, just exaggerated stories. The genius of creation/ nature is that the laws do not have to be tinkerd with to work, even for life. The universe is on autopilot, it appears.

Mephis

So you have an absent God who you're claiming made laws which are instead invented by humans to describe how our universe works. It's kind of irrelevant even invoking him as part of a discussion then.

prologos

Mephis: :"--laws which are instead invented by humans --" well, The laws by which nature works are embodied in the universe and it's movements, It is the human genius that is able to express them in Mathematics, a logic that allows us to extrapolate into further understanding of the workings of the universe. It probably can be said that these are among the eternal truth, because some are almost self evident like the inverse square radiation/ gravity laws, inverse fourth power cooling law, Pie, --The source of other constants are still being investigated, the mass/ gravity mystery, Higgs, gravitons, space tensioning. so.

to me, the deist creator is as useless as my parents. I would not be here without them, and they not without nature and it's possible maker, even if he appears to be fully finished with his work, just as my parents are with my pro-creation event. and I am not quoting Nietzsche here.

Ruby456

fisherman, Why can't we view God in an heuristic sort of way - or hold the concept of God in this way - heuristic meaning rule of thump, bricolage which means do-it-yourself from materials at hand. (this is not meant to be insulting to those who believe God is divine and sacred. It is just a way to set aside the idea that there is someone above watching our every move to punish evil and reward obedience).

when I was trying to sort out my beliefs I found this way of thinking of God was marvelously fruitful. a Do-it-yourself God - one that could laugh at his mistakes and enjoy the variety as well as be held responsible for the way he'd cut up the material when things go wrong.

prologos - I dunno re deism - it is too far away and indifferent. mathematics is too dry - unless of course you love it

Mephis

well, The laws by which nature works are embodied in the universe and it's movements, It is the human genius that is able to express them in Mathematics, a logic that allows us to extrapolate into further understanding of the workings of the universe. It probably can be said that these are among the eternal truth, because some are almost self evident like the inverse square radiation/ gravity laws, inverse fourth power cooling law, Pie, --The source of other constants are still being investigated, the mass/ gravity mystery, Higgs, gravitons, space tensioning. so.
to me, the deist creator is as useless as my parents. I would not be here without them, and they not without nature and it's possible maker, even if he appears to be fully finished with his work, just as my parents are with my pro-creation event. and I am not quoting Nietzsche here.

Genuine question, but if that's your god, aren't you a bit peeved he doesn't care enough to check in? Or is he not irrelevant to all intents and purposes in your life? Other than a theoretical construct which exists to provide an explanation?

I don't see the 'genius' really, other than in testing and establishing detail. Things are because they are not something else. It's perfectly plausible that in other universes things are different. That the 'constants' only hold for this particular universe. Not sure how that would speak of intelligence or a god or, indeed, eternal truths.

What was there before the Big Bang?

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