by Big Jim 55 Replies latest jw friends
Julien: How many videos of unexplained phenomena have you seen, yet quickly dismissed because it hasn't happened to you? You can't say that there hasn't been any footage caught on tape, because there has. Unfortunately, we did not own a camcorder at the time.
The couple that moved in after us, only stayed for about two months before they moved out too(I don't know why). The house has remained vacant for the last ten years. I believe that the current owners use it for storage.
Slayer:
I have never seen such a video, that was the point of my post.. However I have seen the 'people hiding from the tornado under the bridge' video , for example, at least 10 times on various shows, without even trying.. I think that any actual paranormal footage would be at least as sensational as the tornado footage, and thus likely to be shown over and over. I have also seen 'ghost' shows where they play eerie music and walk around a 'haunted' house telling the 'legend' of whatever ghost .. but never ever does anything out of the ordinary happen. If you can direct me to documented cases on the web or whatever I am always open to looking at anything..
Incidentally I used to have the night terrors occasionally.. not fun.
I agree with julien.
There are lots of reports of thing happening and 'I had a friend who heard that...' type things which I believe are just made up stories and urban myths.
Lots of natural disasters on Camcorder. Some UFO's on Camcorder (usually in front of the home of a 'special effects expert'... hmmn) but incredibly few ghosts on tape. Kind of like the Loch Ness Monster - thousands claim to have seen it ... they just always seem to forget to put film in their camera etc... (do I sound sceptical yet?)
I thing humans are capable of spooking themselves given our vivid imaginations and that is all there is to it.
There are no demons just as there are no angels. No Satan as their is no God.
There is just us... telling scary stories
Slayer,
Sorry if I gave the wrong impression – and I’m probably taking this too seriously since you were probably joking, but… I did not say "prozac" explanation. I said "prosaic". Prosaic means simple, dull, ordinary, not fanciful or extraordinary. It's a bit like Occams Razor. Choose the explanation with the least amount of assumptions. I'm not sure if you've actually done a lot of research in this area, but many of us have. I personally have. I used to be a believer in the paranormal (What JW wasn’t?) until I read some books on the subject that opened my eyes. Science really does know a lot more than you might think about such things.
I think one of the reasons I responded to this thread (and I’m sure most of the others too) was not to belittle you, but to help you overcome any fear you may have of the spirit world. To me it is sad that many people actually live in fear of such things. Of course the experiences people have are real, but that doesn’t mean that benevolent or evil spirits (or UFO’s) caused the experience. There are many other simpler explanations which can be researched in many fine rational science publications.
We all experience weird things. But it is comforting to know that there isn't any evil energy or spirit world playing parlor tricks trying to scare people. And if these ghosts or whatever really were doing these things to scare people – how lame is that? What loser ghosts! I just find those explanations silly in the light of scientific reasoning.
Here are some books that I’ve really enjoyed. They are not only great at explaining many “unexplained” things, but they also teach you how to hone your BS detector so you can more easily tell when someone is telling you a doosie of a tall tale, or is trying to sell you some worthless cure-all, or tells you they can see the future, or talk to your dead relatives, etc…
Why People Believe Weird Things, Shermer
Demon Haunted World, Sagan
Voodoo Science, Park
How We Believe, Shermer
Broca’s Brain, Sagan
Some books by James Randi
I hope you enjoy these books as much as I have!
rem
You know, I understand that some of you may have a hard time believing that some of the things that others have experienced. I can deal with that. But the fact remains that things have happened that you yourselves cannot come up with an explanation for. Some say dreams and night terrors (although they do not fit every circumstances). Some say ufos. Some say that its someone's own mind causing things to move. That may be, I can accept that there may be other explanations besides demons.
What bothers me though are those who keep insinuating that those of us who have posted our personal experiences are making them up, that we are all just trying to scare people. That's just plain crazy to me. I could not speak for others here, but ever since I came here I have tried to be very open and honest about every thing that I say. The fact that I (a very low income individual who does not own a camcorder and if I did, I really don't think that I would have been thinking about trying to video tape my son's incident instead of trying to help him) do not have the incident on tape, does not mean that it did not happen.
I love my child very much, more than anything and the idea that some are saying that i made it up to scare people is just plain insulting to me as a mother. Like I would really want to make something up that scary about my son.
Like I said, you don't have to believe in demons to realize that there are somethings that cannot be easily explained and that just because they could not be explained, doesn't make them false. Some of you need to open your minds a little.
victoria's secret
I recommend the film 'Phenomenon' for those of you struggling with the seemingly unexplainable. It details how a normal guy deals with extraordinary experiences, and it might make you think outside your accustomed box regarding the 'unexplainable'.
There could be literally a thousand explanations for these phenomena. The tendency to see evil in the experiences is IMO a conditioned response. Whit Streiber talks about the perception of unexplainable occurrences in one of his books. He shared an 'abduction' experience with a child. He was terrified and viewed what was happening as a hideous thing. The child, OTOH, was quite relaxed and open to what was happening, and viewed the 'abductors' as angels, not creepy aliens. Your perspective of an experience colors it. Your preconceptions color your experience.
Personally, I think there are energies we haven't yet measured, and they affect us in ways we haven't yet begun to study. I don't reject any such 'supernatural' experience out of hand, but I refuse to label them with the old prejudicial fear-filled labels I was taught as a Churchian. JWs taught us that the world is a 'demon-filled void.' I refuse to accept that idiotic notion. Ignorance leads us to irrational fear of the unknown. It also leads us to defend our prejudices and accompanying fears, especially when they have a religious basis.
I believe the fear of the unexplained is the reason humans invented religion in the first place.
Of course there are demons. Just because the WT uses that kind of stuff to put the fear in people and control them and just because the
WT is full of **** doesn`t mean that there are no demons. The experience which both Slayer and Doubtingsister related about feeling
as though something is sitting on them and chocking them is very,very
common in both Japan and the Philippines.In Japan it`s called `kana-
shibari`.Many JWs and many people attending churches testifiy to being
freed from the `kanashibari` when they found faith.
The problem with the WT teaching about demons is that they make them
out to be everpresent and very dangerous.If you read the Bible on the
subject you will notice that 1)Jesus was never very shook up about
demons 2)Jesus never `failed`to deliver someone 3)Jesus never used
Jehovah`s name when dealing with demons 4)The Bible teaches believers
to stand up to demons not to run from them 5)The Bible teaches that
no force earthly or heavenly can separate us from the love of God.
6)The Bible teaches us to worry about immoral actions,not demons.
As to my `demon` experiences. While I was living in the Philippines
one materialized in my room and tried to grab me.Here in Japan a doll
started to grow a beard!!(normally dolls don`t grow facial hair).
One night my bed started to shake vigorously(there was no earthquake).
I could relate many other experiences, but they aren`t important.
It`s too bad that some people bend over backwards to make every
supernatural experience into some type of natural phenomenom.Write
everything off to genetics or mental pre-suppositions.When it`s your
own experience, you don`t doubt it. It`s unhealthy to over rate and
over emphasis demonic power.It`s probably also unwise to dismiss them
entirely. JWD
"...feeling as though something is sitting on them and chocking them is very,very common in both Japan and the Philippines."
It's common in many other countries as well. Although I can't necessarily explain every story that's been related in this thread, with this particular story there's a perfectly natural explanation. Read Sagan's The Demon-Haunted World to see that demons have nothing to do with this. This experience comes from the mind, is known throughout the world, and is not a demon attack.
Hi everybody I'm new here although I have been lurking for some time.
I can relate to this thread. Growing up as a witness there was always the fear of demons. My father was always having attacks from the demons. And it always turned out to be an article someone had given us, be it babys clothes, photo albums, gifts, anything.
The amazing thing was that it was only my father that experienced these "demon" attacks. Reason being we were told he was suseptible to the demons. These attacks always seemed to be at night, but come morning my mother would tell us about it and the offending article was thrown away and lo and behold everything was back to normal.
With the problems that he had and looking back now I can well understand why he was the only one in the family to be affected with these "demon" problems. And in his case it was more than likely a guilty concience plaguing him.
However, as humans we can explain anything away, but the fact is there is so much we don't understand. I personally try to keep an open mind.
BugEyes Wife
thought I would give my 2cents, I wrote this to randy walters last year
Dear Randall
I have a lot to say but won't bore with the details, a brief introduction would be appropriate. I suffered with depression for great part if my teenage life and so when I listened to the JWs I embraced it with open arms, in about a year of studying I was baptised. Like so many I had no idea of the life to come, I have so much to say most of which you know or have heard from other JWs. Despite all that has happen there is something that still plagues me even 21/2 year after leaving.
I was raised with a belief in a god, I had a little knowledge of the angels and the demons, and in the year that I started studying I was awoken with the strange sensation that I was being choked! similar to being in a headlock. I chalked this down to a demon attack and my study conductor comforted me with the notion that god would protect me and that all I have to do have call out his name and everything would all right and the demon would not come back. Some time after, I moved house and became a member of the local congregation. It wasn't long before I was attacked in my sleep, the pain is EXCRUCIATING (I use the word 'is' because it still happens). I said nothing to anybody out of fear, I guess I blamed myself, I thought, well, I'm in god's true organisation, so I must be the weak link. So I all but stopped watching TV and stopped listening to music for fear that I was allowing them in somehow. My mother was 7th day Adventist and you may know, they don't believe in images so that ruled her out. Later on I got the chance to go to Florida with a brother who had a fleshly brother out there. I was also attacked in my sleep there. The following year I went back,(having fallen in love with America), this time I stayed with an elder and his family and again I was attacked, while sleeping in his daughters bed. The following year I went back to the states and the same thing happened again at another brother's house. It destroyed my faith in a god who is concerned with us personally. I remember a night when the ordeal was so traumatic that on the way to work to work I cried thinking of the reasons why god would let this happen to someone that supposedly had given is life to him. What was perplexing was that the bible says that 'you won't be tested more than you can bear' that god 'will always make a way out for you', sickness or illness I can understand, temptation from the opposite sex to fornicate, temptation to steal or lie I can understand, but asleep in your bed!!! Where's my way out?? The attacks makes me paralysed and unable to speak to I can't 'call out his name'. Praying franticly hasn't helped or I think it doesn't because nothing happens for a good while, and don't even get me started on the dreams where they introduced themselves to me and synchronised the pain to make me believe that it was real.
For 7 years I truly believed that this was the truth, nothing else would have made a seventeen-year-old give up his education and his life, and this is was what I got. To say that I'm angry is an understatement, however I am no longer bitter about the whole situation, just mega confused. Interestingly enough, after recently finding out about the true date of Jerusalem's destruction, it not being 607BCE, and its implication for the Watchtower society, I have been in contact with the JWs again, to discuss what I have found. They can't see the big picture and even if they could, most of them are far to dependent to leave and now start thinking for themselves. I got a copy of their new book, which discusses Daniel, it’s the only publication from the JWs in my bedroom, and low and behold, another attack and smiling face that fades away. It would bitter irony if all this time that the one thing that I thought would protect me from the demons is the one thing that has given them a free pass to rain on my parade. My obvious question would be, why the HELL is this happening to ME??? I'm far too insignificant to warrant all this attention from the demons. At the height of my 'spirituality' the attacks were every night. The more hours I put in, the more I was punished. When I hit a low and wanted to get back with more studying, the more I was punished. Even when I thought that this was Satan's way of trying to put me off the truth, is still didn't make sense to me. When I finally told an elder one who had been a CO and a DO, even he said that in the 40 or so years that he had been in the truth he had never heard of this, especially in a 1st world country.
As it stands, I still have a belief in god, but with this still going on, what I'm to think? Is this to be my penance for 7 years of trying to serve god the best way I could? I have become disillusioned with the whole concept of god and religion. The sheer ambiguity of if all is just too much for me to bear, thinking that god has answered your prayer only for it to blow up in your face, its just happened with too much constancy to be coincidence. I haven't spoken to god in sooo long I can't remember, and yet in the 21/2 years since I left, I have lived my life as if god doesn't care about me, but my quality of life has increase a thousand fold. Mentally, I have so much clarity that you would think that god and myself are inseparable. I do feel closer to him now that I'm not affiliated with a religion and don't expect ANTHING from him. Would this be the definition of a paradox??
Tell me…. what do you think.
