Part 2 of "Apostate Logical Fallacies"

by logansrun 66 Replies latest jw friends

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    Apostate Logical Fallacies – Part 2 of 2

    In my first essay on common fallacies former Jehovah’s Witnesses commit in reference to the Society I explained the error of generalizing individual Witness behavior to that of the entire Society. The other errors I notice (to a certain degree I realize they are my opinions) are related to this, yet somewhat different. Well, here it goes…

    2) Focusing on the bad, totally ignoring the good: this is most related to the fallacy I previously discussed with one exception – instead of people think of teachings. Just because many Witness teachings are false or harmful does not mean that every Witness teaching is false and harmful. All too often I see statements like, “I won’t trust anything the Watchtower says” or other sweeping statements. Really? You mean you disagree with the Awake! article on how to avoid a heart attack? Or how about the suggestions on dealing with osteoporosis -- would you ignore them?

    Just because many of the teachings of the JWs are wrong or, to be blunt, stupid, does not mean that there are no redeeming qualities about the Society. I think they offer very good suggestions on public speaking, for example. I see nothing wrong with how they handle their finances in general. There are also some good articles dealing with the “new personality” and the like. In short, not everything the Society teaches is wrong. That may seem like an obvious point, but sometimes I wonder if people realize this.

    3) Use of highly emotive language: Words like “evil, wicked, liars, etc.” are strong language. Hitler was an evil man. Stalin was a wicked man. Bill Clinton was a liar (sort of). But, when we start to apply words like this to the Society we may – note MAY – be making a mistake. I honestly cannot say that the GB are all liars or evil or whatever other terrible thing you can think of. Again, the human condition is very complex and these men have spent their whole lives living out a deeply ingrained fantasy. They really believe it! I think this must be taken into account before passing judgment on someone. (Some members here are extremely harsh on the GB to the point of being extremely distasteful. I am reminded of when Milton Henschel died and more than a few were saying they would like to dance on his grave or dig up his bones.)

    Often I read that the GB are murderers. This is because of the Society’s prohibition on blood transfusions. But, is it really correct to call them murderers? Some people called LBJ a murderer for keeping American troops in Vietnam so long? But, do you think that was his intention -- to just kill young men? I don't think so. Misguided and his policy may have been, there is a great deal of difference between being a willful murderer and in promoting a policy which you feel you is the right and noble thing to do which happens to lead to the death of some.

    There are other examples as well. I’ve read stories on this site of Dan Sydlik punching a newbie Bethelite in the stomach on an elevator, of Sydlik’s wife having an affair, of him starting to weep in the middle of a prayer at a convention. Until eyewitness reports or other hard evidence comes to light these stories will remain just that – stories. This forum is not immune to tall tales.

    Well, that’s all I’ll say. I probably could go on but I think you get the picture. Basically I see too many posts which use highly emotionalized language, generalizations, black and white thinking, hearsay, and the like. How can we correct this problem? (Haha – like it will be “corrected”!) Just think before we post, that’s all. Ask yourself: Do I have my facts straight? Is there more than one way to look at this matter? How would a JW view this? If I were a JW apologist what defense would I make for them? Are my emotions getting in the way of my better thinking?

    Questioning ourselves (and others) in this matter will only make our arguments against the Society that much better. We will also aid ourselves, I feel, in the process of healing from the pain this religion has caused.

    Thank you for reading this essay,

    Bradley

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    Bradley,

    For what it's worth, in my opinion your post is the best ever written on this subject.

    I fully agree with everything you wrote, I also believe though that by saying "I agree" I may have killed it.

    IW

  • logansrun
    logansrun

    IW,

    You're wrong.

    Hehe. Seriously, though -- I know you play the part of WT "apologist" at times and I applaud your efforts (sometimes). All the same I have serious reservations about some of your viewpoints, but that's another topic altogether. Perhaps I'll start a thread called "Island Woman's Logical Fallacies -- Part 1 of 500"

    Bradley

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    Bradley you are wrong!

    It should be Part 1 of a thousand! I am a mess.

    Seriously though, you touched on some very important points in your posts. A few have tried to say what you have said but did not succeed in putting it quite so well. Also, the board may be more welcome to this type of thinking now. I hope so.

    IW

  • expatbrit
    expatbrit

    Hello Bradley:

    These were good posts! Very balanced and rational.

    That's the good news. Here's where I mildly disagree with you:

    You said that just because many Witness teachings are harmful does not mean that every Witness teaching is harmful. I would respond to that with the question "what are Witness teachings?"

    The examples you gave of advice on avoiding heart attacks and osteoperosis are not actually Witness teachings. They are merely regurgitations of articles and material from the medical community. They do not originate with the Watchtower, and so technically cannot be classified as Witness teachings. For something to be a Witness teaching, it would seem to me that the teaching would have to be a product of their own research and ideas using primary sources, such as the Bible. Off the top of my head, I would classify the blood doctrine as a Witness teaching. Probably shunning too.

    Given that approach, it could very well be said that there is a high probability that the vast majority of "Witness" teachings are indeed harmful. Hence the statements such as "I wont trust anything the Watchtower says." I've said that myself, and it's true. When I read an article on how to avoid heart attacks, I compare it with what I've read in bona fide medical publications. If it agrees, then I trust that information, but only because I have it confirmed from a reliable source other than the Watchtower. If, on the other hand, the Watchtower makes a medical comment and I can't confirm it from other sources, then you bet your bibby I'm not going to trust it!

    One other point is that places such as this discussion board dwelling overwhelmingly on the negative does provide an overall balance, since all the Watchtower publications and active JW's do is present the apparent good of that organization. If sources like this do not fill in the negative aspect, the information available on the Watchtower will be skewed misleadingly to the positive.

    Expatbrit

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    Well hmmm where to start...

    Just because many Witness teachings are false or harmful does not mean that every Witness teaching is false and harmful.

    Nope by no means. Publically they do encourage a clean moral lifestyle. As an incest survivor I had a pretty good chance of developing a lot of nasty habits. Being a JW protected me from that - and well... I was a chicken lol

    All too often I see statements like, “I won’t trust anything the Watchtower says” or other sweeping statements.

    Well I would never trust them just on their say-so. I check things out - do real research. And I have found them wrong more than once. I have also discovered as have a lot of other people that they selectively choose material that supports their beliefs even if the source happens to be the husband of a spirit medium. And then they lied about knowing that. The history was unknown to me. I got out and learned more about the beginnings of this org than I ever learned whiule I was there.

    I guess I just don't blindly accept what they say - been burned too many times already thank you.

    Really? You mean you disagree with the Awake! article on how to avoid a heart attack? Or how about the suggestions on dealing with osteoporosis -- would you ignore them?

    Personally I go to the Mayo Clinic's web site - much more informative when it discusses medical problems

    I think they offer very good suggestions on public speaking, for example.

    Actually I learned more in a 72 hour college course about public speaking than I ever learned in 22 years of MS. And as a JW I could never address the audience directly. Now I can and I have!!!

    I see nothing wrong with how they handle their finances in general.

    Sorry - all the milions that the rank and file have been robbed of because they thought the org was poor? Yea they take care of their finances alright. Get the cong to save up money in a building fund and send it to Bethel. Then borrow your own money back with interest to build the hall you just paid for in advance and again during the mortgage. And when it is all done you can just "dedicate" it to the org and hand over the deed. Wanna talk about double dipping for the literature? While the members are struggling to raise families on meager wages the org is diving into their pockets and asking for more and more - now bequeath us all your worldy goods. Sorry the only ones they helf is themselves

    There are also some good articles dealing with the “new personality” and the like.

    You mean that new personality that they encourage people to put on so that they deny their thoughts and feelings and give all their time to selling mags and books for them? You mean that new personality that welcomes and supports pedophiles while shunning the victims? Or do you mean the new personality that can turn a child away and say I disown you? Yup I just love that new personality

    In short, not everything the Society teaches is wrong. That may seem like an obvious point, but sometimes I wonder if people realize this.

    No not everytihing is wrong. But they have one set of rules for the rank and file and another for themselves - examples - UN, weapons, finances, living in luxury....

    Am I being negative? Yup. The damage outweighs the good. The good is there but it is so small in comparison. - Will be back for another point in a bit

  • Skeptic
    Skeptic

    logansrun,

    You have started an excellent, well thought out seriss. I am eager for more.

    You have expressed many thoughts that I have had, but did not find the right words to express them. You found those words.

    Keep up the good work!

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman
    Focusing on the bad, totally ignoring the good

    Normally a bad thing, but in the case of the WT, don't forget that they make a one-sided presentation. Anything that's good about that organization, they'll tell you themselves - loud and often. What they will never tell you about are the flaws. Which is why most ex-JW's spend their time talking about the bad rather than the good - it's what needs to be exposed.

    All too often I see statements like, “I won’t trust anything the Watchtower says” or other sweeping statements. Really? You mean you disagree with the Awake! article on how to avoid a heart attack? Or how about the suggestions on dealing with osteoporosis -- would you ignore them?

    Saying that you won't trust anything the Watchtower says isn't the same thing as saying that everything they teach is wrong. Sure, the information they publish about having a healthy heart and strong bones may be accurate and potentially useful - or it may not, if their doctrines are involved in any way. Remember, a few decades ago they taught that the literal, physical heart was the seat of emotion. Might that have affected any material they published on the subject of cardiac health? I think it could have. So, knowing they have an agenda in all that they publish, I won't trust any of it, even on seemingly innocuous subjects. You know they will slant the information if it advances their agenda, so why not just make a habit of turning to more honest sources for your information?

    I think they offer very good suggestions on public speaking, for example.

    I agree, they do. But there are places to get equally good or better information on the subject without being subjected to their deviant doctrine and attempts at mind control. As I said above, not everything they teach is false, but I would not trust anything they say, because they are not to be trusted!

  • czarofmischief
    czarofmischief

    I'm inclined to agree with Lady Lee. I think that though they may still really believe that the end is "just around the corner" there comes a point when a leader has to answer for his decisions. Those who have been given more are held to a higher standard.

    They should have looked harder at the evidence, not been so proud, so unwilling to admit wrongdoing. Humility can cover a great deal of missteps, and can correct them before they become death dealing. However, their insane insistence on attaining some nonexistent concept of purity leads to the deaths of young children, of people in Malawi, while they recline in the lap of comfort and security in their idyllic surroundings - vote themselves the right to another blood fraction to sustain their withered, wasted lives - get their Society car washed and waxed by the kids they've shamed out of college - join the U.N. to get a library card while denying a 25 cent political card to the brothers in Malawi - and cruise along to another convention where they will be lauded and applauded... well, if they can't tell that what they are doing is at least hypocritical, then they are being willfully blind. And willful blindness is merely a type of evil, a type that has no courage, no backbone, no force of conviction to drive it along.

    Lastly, Hitler really believed the Jews were bad. Stalin really believed that his enemies in the army were out to get him. Did their conviction excuse their behavior? No.

    So, while it may be illogical to say that "not everything" coming out of Brooklyn is wrong, pardon us while we duck to the side to avoid anything from that heap of lies, manipulation, and double dealing. Please, even the Bible book for kids they released this summer is rife with primitive mind manipulation, full of fear and threats of Armageddon. We just can't trust the few facts they put into their magazines, probably gleaned from websites like the Mayo clinics, in order to spice up the old lie that the End is Coming.

    CZAR

  • metatron
    metatron

    Well, let's see

    The Nazis believed in hard work, punctuality, and faith. The Soviets likewise.

    I don't recall anyone saying that everything about the Watchtower is evil, indeed,

    many folks here argue about reform - infering that something is worth saving.

    The Watchtower is a shining example of the banality of evil, just like the

    totalitarian regimes of the past. They smile, put up an appearance of logic,

    and drain your life away.

    metatron

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit