I'm Concerned About My Children.

by SpannerintheWorks 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    I have never restricted your beliefs!

    Is that true? If so, good. Tell her you appreciate that. But, if she thinks she can indoctrinate the with JWism 100% of the time, that is restricting your beliefs. Don't let her get away with more than 50%, lol. Hopefully, it won't be a big fight, your simply spending time with your kids and showing them another belief system.

    You have never been a JW!

    And?

    You have no idea what it is like to be a JW!

    True, but you do have her experience, and what you've researched, so you do have some idea what it's like. Btw, what point is she trying to make with this?

  • happyout
    happyout

    Well, I kind of discuss things very non threateningly. Like, when she says she has never restricted your beliefs, say thank you and all you are asking is that she extend the same courtesy to your children. When she says you have no idea what it's like, then say, she's right, but she fell in love with you as a non-JW, so that must mean something worthwhile came out of your belief. You just want your children to have the opportunity to form their own beliefs, and it if really is "the truth" then their being exposed to other religions will not be a deterent to their seeing "the truth". Also, point out that if you aren't allowed to share your thoughts and ideas with your children, it could damage your relationship with them.

    If all else fails, try to gently point out that you are the "head of the household" and that your decision is that your children will participate in things with you as well as things with their mother. If she cries, hold her and comfort her and say you both want the best for your children, and that's what's most important.

    Again, I haven't experienced this myself, so I hope my advice doesn't sound too simplistic. I hope things work out for you and your family.

    Happyout

  • ashitaka
    ashitaka

    Agree with Sixo.

    Also, ask her, Have you researched your own religion from the outside, as the JWs encourage you to do about other religions? (In order to refute them) If not, then why? Are you unduly restricted to do so? If you are restricted by the Watchtower, as to investigating your own religion by secular means, then what do you think that maybe there are some seedy parts they don't want you to see, just like any other religion?

    That may start an argument, but it could get her thinking. If you approach it in a calm way, it could be good.

    This is excellent, Six:

    But, if she thinks she can indoctrinate the with JWism 100% of the time, that is restricting your beliefs. Don't let her get away with more than 50%, lol. Hopefully, it won't be a big fight, your simply spending time with your kids and showing them another belief system.

    ash

  • worldlygirl
    worldlygirl

    Spanner, ask her to get you a copy of the Family Happiness book. There is an entire section that addresses the way a JW wife should handle her family relationship with her "unbelieving" spouse. It does mention that she should respect your authority as "head of the household", try to go in field service when you are not at home, etc. If I remember correctly, it also addresses how to deal with conflicts over the children's religious upbringing. I'm not suggesting that you abide by the guidelines at all, but it is helpful to see what angles you could use to beat them at their own game using their own rules.

    If she won't get you a copy at the KH, send me a PM and I'll send you mine or scan the pertinent pages for you.

    Good luck...

    worldlygirl (also of the never-been-a-JW-thank-God class)

  • SpannerintheWorks
    SpannerintheWorks

    THANK YOU EVERYBODY! I AM SO UPSET THAT I AM UNANABLE TO RESPOND At this present moment.

    Kind regards,

    Spanner.

  • Buster
    Buster

    My daughter has been growing up without an organized religion. Nevertheless, I have a slightly different angle that you may find of interest. Over the years, she (now 17) has been interested in what some of the other kids are doing and why they believe the way they do. Several times, she asked if she could attend meetings of one sort or another with some friends.

    My answer has always been "Yes, but we will talk about what to look for and discuss it after." This was very effective for us. I told her to expect the 'love bomb' and to feel really good about it. Then I told her to wait and see when they start expecting things from her. They will expect her to express some beliefs, and start modifying her life. THEN I told her to look for the reaction when she doesn't conform.

    She realized that the more 'in your face' her friends were with their religion, the more they looked down on her when she didn't toe the line. A couple times thru that cycle and she had had enough. This process started when she was about 12.

    So, your's may a bit young. But I went with the 'Get information in front of them and trust them' approach. It worked well for us.

  • bluesapphire
    bluesapphire

    Six, your words are so true. When I was trying to raise my three daughters as good little j-duds, I was married to a "worldly" guy. He made sure they always had a Christmas treee, easter basket, birthday party, halloweeen, etc. etc. He never took them to church with him -- he respected my religion in that sense. But he made sure the girls didn't miss out on the fun stuff.

    At the time I used to fume. But deep down inside I was glad for the girls. They had so much fun.

    Now when we look back on the jw years they don't resent me for anything. They know they didn't miss out. They had the best of both worlds. But they DO tell me that they KNOW they would never have grown up to be jw's. They were afraid of me back then but they knew they preferred the "world".

  • rainbow2003
    rainbow2003

    Reassure your daughters you love them no matter what, for example even if your spouse has them involved in what you do not care for religiously, but at the same time inform them by first reading them reasoning with them on points in the following leaflet such as about topics like birthdays etc. Quietly inform members of the local congregations with a copy of it to them and some of those will ease up on your family as they themselves see the falsities of the Watchtower leaders. Send a copy to various JWs and in time see that your spouse gets one. When the kids get older get them a copy of this to read as well. In short use LOVE and INFORMATION.

    ALTHOUGH CBS, DATELINE NBC ETC HAVE ALSO CORRECTLY DOCUMENTED the child molestation situation involving the Watchtower Society (WTS) over Jehovah's Witnesses (JWs), this is to even better inform the general public including medical personnel, JWs themselves and persons studying Bible subjects with them about additional burning issues. Sharing copies of this which you are reading has helped improve many people's lives and even saved the lives of some who might have bled to death otherwise:

    CHRISTMAS: The WTS teaches that Christ was likely born about October 2, so why ignore that this means that he must have been conceived 9 months before, meaning in late December. Similarly, why insist that Christmas came from the pagan Saturnalia when John 10:22-3 says Christ also celebrated the Jewish Festival of Dedication or Lights, i.e. Hannukah, which first began December 25 but has varied since because lunar-based, and which includes lights, tree ornaments, singing and gifts?

    BIRTHDAYS: Don't Job 1:3, 3:1 and 3:3 (you must read all 3 verses) show that Job's kids celebrated their days of birth, meaning birthdays? Didn't angels celebrate Christ's own birth? Santa is from Nicholas, a famous Christian gift-giver who lived in the Middle Ages, not a wizard or pagan god. Why call compromises holidays that attacked and replaced paganisms? Doesn't Colossians 12:16 says let none judge you about a holiday. The WTS teaching that Christmas is definitely pagan and must not be celebrate because two persons were killed in the Bible during birthday situations ignores the facts and destroys normal family ties.

    BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS: Most normal identical twins use a shared placenta to transfuse blood to each other, showing that God Himself uses transfusions. Although Acts 15:20, which the WTS singles out, says abstain from blood, 1 Samuel 14:32-5 says Saul's entire army ate "unBLED" meat to not starve and no verses show God not forgiving them. Too, Christ (Mat 7) says God also forgave David's eating temple holy bread and that God wants Mercy Not Sacrifice. The May 22, 1994 Awake tells of 26 JW kids who died without transfusions, and by common sense in massive bleeding as in car wrecks blood expanders won't save lives (ajwrb.org). Also, an estimated 3 JWs die daily earthwide from the WTS's unscriptural policy (Blood On The Altar by David Reed)! Why don't WTS heads teach members these additional facts? Why should anyone's kids, grandkids etc be endangered? Medical doctors etc are encouraged to get this information to JWs and those studying with them so as to save lives!

    SHUNNING CALLED "DISFELLOWSHIPPING:" 1 Corinthians 6:1 only says judge "trivial" things as in business, James 2:4-13 calls judging harmful, and Paul says the "majority" (2 Corinthians 2:6), followed his advice to shun a wrongdoer, meaning a minority chose not to and yet he nowhere condemns them. Christ said families would be divided by some members doing good and others doing wrongs but never ever advocated destruction of families. So we ask why the formal Judicial Committes destroying families via numerous formal renderings of disfellowshipping which is severe shunning?

    SURVEILANCE TO KEEP THE ORGANIZATION CLEAN: Done mostly on the quiet by some JW elders and their cronies, surreptious surveillance has been done even on rank-and-file members, some of which is documented in the book Crisis of Conscience. Members are routinely told to report on each other "to keep the congregations clean" even though the Bible point-blank condemns "busy-bodying," comparing it to the crime of murder.

    Page 302 in the WTS's Daniel book and pages 88 and 651 in the Proclaimers book show photos of the Knights Templar swords and the cross-with-crown-and-wreath used by some (not all) Masons among whom some members have at times used "Theocratic Warfare" tactics to change members' personalities on early WTS's literature. Some old WT books also have the winged sun god Ra on front covers - never a Christian symbol. Nor are regular JWs allowed to read Judicial Committee "sin files" on themselves, many not knowing they exist; often with misinformation.(photos: freeminds.org) See also picture of the WTS's Pay Attention To Yourselves And All The Flock book on p 232 of the Insight book that elders have but which non-elders are not allowed to read. Judicial committee sin files on a person are supposedly to be destroyed after 7 years, but even when they sometimes are locally destroyed, the permanent file is kept forever in Brooklyn and, as said, is subject to abuse and falsification.

    TRINITY: Watchtower heads say the Trinity is believing Father, Son, Spirit are one "identical" person yet most churches accept it as three totally different entities or persons forming one "Godship" (Ro 1:20) in which the Son and Spirit share age, power, knowledge inherited from God the Father just as an acorn may be only one day old but also have its genes inheriting its ancestral oak tree's age, capacity and information. Only a very few churches answer the WTS's description of trinity belief.

    CROSS: Human remains and inscriptions show archaeologists the stauros was a cross not stake, Dr Frederick Zugibe's research shows suffocation would be in minutes if on a stake but in hours if on outstretched cross per Luke 23:44 and Matthew 27:45-6. Leaders call a cross is a repugnant murder weapon but Paul said boast in the stauros as a symbol of resurrection over death. (Ga 6:14, 1Cor 1:17-18)

    ACCUSED CHILD MOLESTORS ON THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY'S GOVERNING BODY? Elders often hide local scandals, but also note that Leo Greenlees was a child molester who sat on the worldwide WTS Governing Body. He was reassigned but never disfellowshipped (excommunicated/shunned) in the 1980s (jehovahs-witness.com in the archives, etc). Child abuse coverups by Watchtower Society (WTS) associates will cause costly, organizationally destructive court costs and has already brought grave reproach including articles in Christianity Today, investigations by Dateline NBC in 2002, an airing on CBS in April 2003 etc. Copies of letters to the Bodies Of Elders which regular members aren't shown, including on child abuse etc, have been posted at http://www.silentlambs.org, freeminds.org etc. Pat Garza at a silentlambs protest before WTS headquarters publicly told media Ted Jaracz of the WTS Governing Body molested her and other children when a District Overseer in Los Angeles 40 years ago and he did not refute it.

    HARASSMENT? Some members in places where illegal child molestation has occurred have complained of physical harassment (poking, shoving etc), hints that "Jehovah's eyes are everywhere" and had elders divulge details of their most private conversations and bedroom doings with their own marriage mates. Although WTS articles told elders not to "police" bedrooms in 1978, in a later during the week night-time talk (but not in writing) in 1983 elders told regular members "The Practice" of some marital intimacies can lead to Expulsion. (discussed also on Jehovahs-Witness.com) Some regular JWs absent that evening have been "expelled" (harassed/trained) without ever even being clearly made aware why it was done. This is an ironic contrast to the pedophilia coverups. WTS "Insight" book articles are on all Bible books except for the Song of Solomon (aka Canticles) which has much positive marital imagery out of line with the WTS Gov Body's own views of what is "holy." Instructed to keep such things "in-house," when asked most elders deny the 1983-onwards policy to protect the Gov Body.

    UNITED NATIONS AFFILIATION WHILE DENOUNCING IT: WTS heads teach God does not like the United Nations but until exposed, during 1991-2001 they were a formal UN associate, not just a UN library card associate as claimed. Read the November 22, 1998 Awake magazine very closely. Also see http://www.thetablet.co.uk/cgi-bin/archive_db.cgi?tablet-00577

    WHY THIS IS NEEDED: Not only do more people need to know about these things but also JWs are told they must not read such material if given it by hand, but when e/mailed it most do quietly read it, some then exit, feel angry at first then quietly decrease donations to the WTS, if not baptized a JW stay that way etc, some form independent nonWTS groups, go back to past beliefs or associate with less reproachful churches. Please make and share copies of this to help improve and save lives!

  • tinkerbell82
    tinkerbell82

    yikes, that is a very difficult situation to be in. i dont have kids and dont plan on it, so i dont know that i can really say anything helpful, except maybe this - i would have KILLED to have a parent that allowed me to CHOOSE whether or not i wanted to be a JW, because i definitely would have chosen not. i know your wife thinks she's saving their lives by bringing them up in the truth, but you might be doing more to save their lives by allowing them a dissenting view. good luck to you.

  • alamb
    alamb

    Spanner,

    I am so sorry and am exactly in your shoes. The best advice I have received is to live well. It speaks volumes and puts out millions of little fires started around you about apostates living debauched lives. Be yourself, be kind, be charitable and live. Give your children the benefit of the doubt and trust common sense.

    My children are at the stage that they are fearful of what they see. My life is fine and happy but they are told to expect the opposite. At some point, the truth (real truth) will shine through. It is hard though..almost comparable to your children being held hostage. My youngest left a note on the fridge years ago that said, "Your actions speak so loudly I cannot hear your words." I try to let my actions speak for me because arguing gets you nowhere but in a hole and justifies their persecution complex. Just love them and show them the world isn't what they are told. There are many wonderful people who cross our paths. I have started a file of all the letters, cards, encouragement, that has been given to me/us to show them someday when they can see it for what it is. Unconditional.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit