by bigboi 17 Replies latest jw friends
One other thought,
I would rather spend my time doing productive things, than spend any time praying to God. First of all, it very impolite to pray. After all, God is very busy, with billions of people here and maybe a lot more on other planets. I would rather fend for myself and leave him out of it. I think he is proud of me for being self sufficient.
larc,
I tend to believe just as you do. Hey -wanna start a cult?!
Seriously, what comes around goes around. Honesty and good ethics are common sense to me.
TR
"cults suck"
Larc,
Have you ever thought that it might be God that has made you to be self sufficient?
Also
Why would it be impolite to pray? Would it be impolite to ask your father for help in time of need?
Guess I might as well share my two cents worth.As far as wanting to do
what`s right as a child,I felt exactly the same way and believe many
kids do.You rarely see children who are just down right nasty from a
small age.I still remember the weight I felt as a child the first time
I told a lie or stole my cousin`s top.I wanted like everything to get
back a clean heart.Then when I was 9 a tornado struck our family`s
vacation spot and in an instant seven people I knew were killed.I can
still vividly remember looking into the face of my dead sister as she
flooted in the water and wondering where she had gone? The thought of
going into non-existence never crossed my mind.It was that day that I
seriously began my quest for God.I wanted a clean heart and someone
who would be with me at all times.I found my heart being particularily
drawn to Jesus Christ. Since then I have given much thought to the
reality of religion,belief and God.Living in Japan I find many people
with a different background and culture who have the same yearning.
So,it doesn`t seem that everything can be summed up as simply being environmental conditioning. But,what is it that draws people to want
to believe in God? A desire for meaning in life? A desire for some
final sorting out of right and wrong in a very un-fair world? An
urge to have a relationship with someone who can `get right inside`
you? A desire to find forgiveness for some grievious wrong? Whatever it is, it is very widespread and doesn`t seem to diminish with wealth
or education. It seems that there is an `appetite` for worship much
in the same way that there is an appetite for sex or food. You rarely
see animals building shrines for no purpose but to worship.Nor do you
see them praying before a meal.So, there must be something that sets
humans apart from animals. Perhaps it`s the existence of something
called `spirit`? JWD
1933, a linguist named A. Korzybski made a very useful statement, he wrote:
... a map is not the territory it represents, but if correct, it has a similar structure to the territory, which accounts for its usefulness ...
He was referring to the map that we hold in our "mind" that describes
the "territory" out there in the real world.
Like a goldfish in a bowl who can never know what it is like outside
the water, we can never know the "truth" of what the world really is
like. In our eyes, if we did not have a mind / brain that interprets
for us, we would constantly see a world with gaping holes in it
corresponding to our blind spots. Our mind / brain seamlessly
integrates the images with our "map".
One statement that is made that is that people believe what they want
to believe, but this is simply not true. No matter how much you want
to believe that you can fly, you wont. The evidence is simply too
overpowering unless your mental powers are medically deficient.
Belief systems are complex and difficult to understand, and it appears
that since we can never make any observations external to our own
frame of reference we will never be fully able to understand our own
minds completely.
It does appear that when the evidence is overwhelming, incorrect
beliefs are easily and quickly shattered unless mentall illness is
involved. Examples are gravity, need for food, touch sensation etc.
What this also implies then is that there is still insufficient
evidence to "blow away" peoples "spiritual" ideas. Athiests and
Agnostics hold on dearly to their idea of a materialist universe every
bit as strongly as the devout born again. However at this stage of
human history, there is still insufficient evidence to sway the
general population one way or another.
Many People end up with a conglomeration of beliefs that can slowly
evolve over a lifetime but remain essentially the same. Others have
a mid life crisis and make more radical changes to their perceptions
of realities.
Just a few thoughts
Dave
The field of twin studies has shed some light on the old 'nurture vs. nature' debate.
Many people have held that one's upbringing is of far greater influence than one's genes.
Whilst 'nurture' is still regarded as important, it's amazing how much is buried in the genes.
If one of a pair of twins bought up seperately from their twin turns out to be gay, it is twice as likely that their twin will be gay, even if they grow up with no knowledge of each other in different environments. If they are fraternal twins, it's lower, if just normal sinlings then only slightly above the average for society.
That doesn't mean all homosexuals are 'born that way', but it shows that for many being gay is part of their natural make-up. And if some people are gay without it being due to their gene's, so what?
Funnily enough, twin studies have shown relgious inclination is about as genetic as homosexuality.
If one of a pair of identical twins seperated at birth is very religous, it is far more likely than normal for their seperated twin to share their depth of religious devotion, even though the actual religion might vary according to the family they were bought up in.
If I get a chance I'll post some URL's, but I'm at work and busy today.
Of course, the question of WHY religious inclination is a genetic inheritable component is a different one.
My personal take is that it ISN'T religion that some of us are genetically inclined towards. Religion is the path taken to fufil needs.
The needs of community and of belonging and of belief - and I don't neccesarily mean belief in god, but a suseptability towards belief.
It would be a trait that would be positively selected by evolution, as people with that trait would form more succesful communities than those without.
People without an inclination towards community and belonging, and without that suseptability towards belief would be less inclined towards communities and less able to conform to their structures as they wouldn't have that binding ability to believe in their community and its values.
Also, a community with people with this inclination towards belief would survive better as they would be more willing to be lead by a leader, as they would believe in him. There would be less dissention and factionalism as a dominant alpha-male would be less likely to be opposed.
Fun isn't it?
Hey Guys!
I wish I had been here last night to take part in this discussion. There is much inthis thread too chew on and I thank all of you for your thoughts about this. Thre were a lot of ideas expressed and i think for me I'll take the simple route of larc and Tr. I guess just trying to be a good person is enough and the best way to live really. I think that's really what we all strive for. To sort of balance our selfish, instinctive tendencies with the idea that doing good for or looking out for others can benefit us too. I guess. Maybe I'll figure it out when I'm older.
Thanks guys.
Peace,
Bigboi.
"..... anyone who ignores everyday reality in order to live up to an ideal will soon discover he had been taught how to destroy himself, not how to preserve himself." The Prince. Niccolo Machiavelli.
Here's a link to the May issue of Newsweek that has some real interesting things on the brain and religion.
Relion and The Brain:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/566079.asp
Faith Is More Than A Feeling:
http://www.msnbc.com/news/566076.asp
