When You See a JW Do You Get Flustered?

by minimus 104 Replies latest jw friends

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    Tom Hartley - Nice to see you here. I am not sure if you are a real JW or not. Nothing personal, you just never can tell on these forums. However, if you are a JW, are you aware are disobeying your Governing body by being here and commenting?

    July 15, 2011 WT ‘’Well, apostates are 'mentally diseased', and they seek to infect others with their disloyal teachings." ‘’7 What is involved in avoiding false teachers? We do not receive them into our homes or greet them. We also refuse to read their literature, watch TV programs that feature them, examine their Web sites, or add our comments to their blogs.’’

    If you know this and wish to comment (which is fine by me...freedom of speech and all that), it proves you must be doubting your faith. Many have been here in the guise of pro JW but in actuality been doubting but testing the waters.

    Just so you know, I don't personally hate the JWs but I do not agree with the edicts of the Governing body, neither do I believe in god.

    I look forward to a polite natter with you.

  • alcyone
    alcyone

    It seems Tom is trying to be a new Greg Stafford...

    https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/686882

    Anyway, Tom your coming here shows you have some doubts. This is a good sign, we all started with small doubts. So, welcome.

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    Howdy Tom H. And welcome to the forum.

    We have a lot of long term posters who have seen it all including the pro JW trolls who are deceptive in their approach. No shared story about how and why they are here. A heavy dose of JW defense and often that JW instinct to be detached from normal conversation as well as normal feelings. It takes a while for trust to build up in part because we actually have real situations that many of us try to help out with.

    Marriages and families breaking up because one mate simply has stopped believing that the JW's have the truth.

    Elders 'hunting' down potential sinners. Usually people who just want to get on with their lives as far away as they can get from a KH.

    On jwfacts.com you can read in the Wacthtower's own words all of the crazy rules you can break and be DF for. 34 different subject headings and the catch phrase 'brazen conduct' which pretty much means anything three Elders agree on.

    How about that world wide pedophile problem? Nothing like a 'two witness rule/ to provide a field of prey.

    Did I mention the Blood doctrine? Sorry to bring it up but the WT is directly responsible for the deaths of thousands each and every year especially since 1945 and then in 1960 when they began DFing people who made sure family members got a life saving transfusion.

    If you don't obey their rules you can be DFed if you don't shun a DFed person even a family member you in turn can and will be DFed.

    There is a law on the books in most countries which calls coercion a crime of duress.

    So I guess that makes the WTBT$ a criminal organization.

    By the way Tom as a pioneer and Elder for 4 years the money always flowed to the Society.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Okay, Outlaw has shown himself to be an assassin nutjob - reach a hand out in reconciliation and find your arm bitten off at the elbow. Surely, any mental health professional would conclude it. I mean, have I shown myself to be anything but joy and love here?.....Tom Harley

    Image result for conceited person

  • stan livedeath
    stan livedeath

    pale e:

    His 20yo daughter was with him... who's inactive with 3 children from different dads and smoking a cigarette.


    priceless--i'm still chuckling at that.

  • Tom Harley
    Tom Harley

    Alcyone says: "Anyway, Tom your coming here shows you have some doubts. This is a good sign, we all started with small doubts. So, welcome."

    How would you know that? Perhaps I am here to kick ass.

    As to someone calling apostates mentally diseased, I do not go there. Or at least it depends upon the person, Look, nobody likes Jehovah's Witnesses here. I'm not sure what I'm getting into and I may not stay. The sign says Jehovahs Witnesses.com, it does not say Apostates-R-Us. If the website is built upon deceptive advertising, is that my fault?

    If people don't like JWs from experience, who am I to tell them they interpreted wrongly their own experience? They are like the guy quitting McDonalds. Perhaps he will loathe McDonalds for the rest of his life, and you may even think, in time, that he should get over it. But this does not make him mentally diseased. He is simply grumbling about something he doesn't like. Many people do that.

    It is the guy that returns to McDonald's every day for the rest of his life to tap on the window with his keys and when people inside look up, hold aloft their "McDonald's Sucks" sign. Anybody would say a person is mentally diseased to do that. Perhaps some here do that. If so, their actions clearly show they are mentally diseased. No mental health professional would say otherwise.

    But if they stay in their own home and grouse, which this site perhaps is, at most that makes them obsessive, not necessarily mentally unbalanced.

    I am in someone else's home. I will be polite (relatively) I may not stay. I will certainly leave if I get flamed. I will even apologize to Outlaw for blasting him when he came after me like a pit bull. Assuming he does it no more, all is forgiven. Someone discovered the book. Please don't flame it. If you do, I will reverse the order of the reviews and say: "10 glowing reviews, and then the apostates discovered it." If anything, that will boost sales, as everyone loves controversy. But you may not want to flame it, anyway. It does not avoid matters that grousers bring up, though it does present them from a JW point of view.

  • alcyone
    alcyone

    How would you know that? Perhaps I am here to kick ass.

    It is quite common one starts to be a big JW apologist when he experiences doubts. The same applies to JW apologists coming here. Often they have some doubts and they come here to reassure themselves that those who left the org "have not found anything better". But you know your reasons, I do not want to judge them...

    Your example of McDonalds. Let us continue with this example. So imagine you work in McDonald. When you leave the company, McDonalds will start to instruct employees to stop associating with you otherwise they will be fired. McDonalds will instruct your family to stop talking to you, they will show them video saying they should not pick up your phone call. At the same time McDonalds employees will come on Saturdays mornings to other people homes trying to convert them to McDonaldism.

    Fortunately, McDonalds does not do this. Is it then proper to compare them to a religious cult?

    But if they stay in their own home and grouse, which this site perhaps is, at most that makes them obsessive, not necessarily mentally unbalanced.

    As you are 'obsessive' with JW, writing apologetic books and witnessing on apostate websites, other people are also 'obsessive' with a cult that destroyed their lives and families. JWs are so 'obsessive' they knock other people doors to convince them about their 'truth'. People here will not come to you on Saturday's morning to tell you are in a false religion and soon you will be destroyed in Armageddon.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    I will even apologize to Outlaw for blasting him when he came after me like a pit bull. Assuming he does it no more, all is forgiven.....Tom Harley

    Image result for dumb ass
  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    Forgive me because I might just be feeding a troll but here goes.......

    As to someone calling apostates mentally diseased, I do not go there.

    But your leaders, the Governing body go there. Do you disagree with these 7 men that are proclaimed to be god's mouthpiece, except when they're not?

    Look, nobody likes Jehovah's Witnesses here.

    That's not true. Carry on reading the blogs here (that your leaders, the Governing body have commanded you not to do), and you'll see. It isn't the rank and file individuals that no one likes. We have family that are JWs that we love but are cut off from because of the edicts of 7 men in America who live a rock star lifestyle, wear expensive watches and finery when many of the JWs in poorer lands struggle.

    Is that not so?

    Why are you disobeying with a direct command from god's mouthpiece as below?

    July 15, 2011 WT ‘’7 What is involved in avoiding false teachers? We do not receive them into our homes or greet them. We also refuse to read their literature, watch TV programs that feature them, examine their Web sites, or add our comments to their blogs.’’

    Signs of a troll and not really a JW apologist, perhaps?

    ...and about god's mouthpiece.......

    Nothing is interpreted but the interpretation comes from God and is then published.
    (WT 1943 July 1 pp. 202-203)

    Angels deliver what is published.
    (PREPARATION 1933 pp. 36-37, 64)

    THE WATCHTOWER publishes "no man's opinion".
    (WT 1931 November 1 p. 327; 1936 March 15 p. 85)

    "To it (this organization) alone...the Bible is not a sealed book." The WTS is "the only organization on earth that understands the 'deep things of God.' "
    (WT 1973 July 1 p. 402)

    The leaders are "spirit directed" (WT 1988 March 1 p. 10)

    and "God's channel."
    (WT 1969 January 15 p. 51; 1960 July 15 pp. 439, 442)

    "It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the 'slave' as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision."
    (WT 1957 June 15 p. 370)

    C. T. Russell founder of the WTS, called himself "God's mouthpiece" (WT 1906 July 15 p. 229); claimed that compared to reading his books Bible reading is "a waste of time" (WT 1910 September 15 p. 298)

    , and that his books "harmonize...every statement in the Bible."
    (DIVINE PLAN OF THE AGES 1886 p. 348)

    God uses and directs the WTS.
    (VINDICATION Book 1 1931 p. 77)

    "The 'slave' class has served as God's sole collective channel for the flow of Biblical truth to men on earth. Just as the early Christian congregation collectively served as the channel of communication from heaven to earth, so in our time."
    (WT 1960 July 15 p. 439)

    "As Jehovah revealed his truths by means of the first-century Christian congregation so he does today by means of the present-day Christian congregation. Through this agency he is having carried out prophesying on an intensified and unparalleled scale. All of this activity is not an accident. Jehovah is the one behind all of it." (WT 1964 June 15 p. 365)

    "Therefore, in submitting to Jehovah's theocratic organization, we must be in full and complete agreement with every feature of its apostolic procedure and requirements."
    (WT 1967 October 1 p. 593)

    "It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the "slave" as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision." (Watchtower 1957 Jun 15 p.370)

    Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book. Many persons of the world are very intelligent, capable of understanding complex matters. They can read the Holy Scriptures, but they cannot understand their deep meaning.""( Watchtower 1973 Jul 1 p.402)

    The point is that Christians have implicit trust in their heavenly Father; they do not question what he tells them through his written Word and organization." (Watchtower 1974 Jul 15 p.441)

    "We must serve Jehovah in truth, as revealed in his Word and made clear in the publications of "the faithful and discreet slave." Watchtower 1996 May 15 p.18

    w10 7/15 p.23 par.10 “The Spirit Searches Into... the Deep Things of God”

    When the time comes to clarify a spiritual matter in our day, holy spirit helps responsible representatives of “the faithful and discreet slave” at world headquarters to discern deep truths that were not previously understood. (Matt. 24:45; 1 Cor. 2:13)

    p.17: "Listening to the slave class means giving our full cooperation to its Governing Body."

    p.27: "Since Jehovah God and Jesus Christ completely trust the faithful and discreet slave, should we not do the same?" "The slave thus deserves our complete trust"

    p.28: "By all means, then, let us listen to the Christ and his trustworthy spirit-anointed brothers."

    ***w10 9/15 p.8 par.7 Earnestly Seek Jehovah’s Blessing ***

    We cannot hope to acquire a good relationship with Jehovah if we ignore those whom Jesus has appointed to care for his belongings. Without the assistance of “the faithful and discreet slave,” we would neither understand the full import of what we read in God’s Word nor know how to apply it.

    -- w10 9/15 p. 13 par. 8: "Similarly today, a Governing Body composed of spirit-anointed Christians contributes to the unity of the worldwide congregation. The Governing Body publishes spiritually encouraging literature in many languages. This spiritual food is based on God’s Word. Thus, what is taught is not from men but from Jehovah.—Isa. 54:13."

    ***w10 9/15 p.23 par.8 “Your Leader Is One, the Christ” ***

    The anointed and their other sheep companions recognize that by following the lead of the modern-day Governing Body, they are in fact following their Leader, Christ.

    ***si p.9 par.16 (2011) “All Scripture Is Inspired of God and Beneficial” ***

    (1) Jehovah God originates his utterances; (2) then his official Word, or Spokesman—now known as Jesus Christ—often transmits the message; (3) God’s holy spirit, the active force that is used as the medium of communication, carries it earthward; (4) God’s prophet on earth receives the message; and (5) he then publishes it for the benefit of God’s people.

    -- w12 9/15 p. 22 par. 16 Learn From the Patience of Jehovah and Jesus

    Well, a person who lacks confidence that the end is near might start to make alternate arrangements, so to speak, in case things do not work out as Jehovah said they would.

    -- w12 9/15 p. 24 par. 4 "You Know Neither the Day Nor the Hour"

    As the end of this system draws ever closer, the work of pointing to Jehovah’s provisions for salvation has never been more important.

    -- w12 11/15 p. 17 par. 9 Cultivate the Spirit of a Lesser One

    A humble person has heartfelt gratitude for Jehovah’s provisions, including spiritual food. Hence, such an individual is a diligent student of the Bible and an avid reader of the Watchtower and Awake! magazines. Like many other faithful servants of Jehovah, he may make it a practice to read each new publication before putting it away on a bookshelf in his personal library. When we manifest humble appreciation by reading and studying our Bible-based publications, we make spiritual advancement, and Jehovah is able to use us more fully in his service.

    -- w13 4/15 p12 par 11 Do not tire out

    Jehovah has provided a bounteous supply of written spiritual food to give us strength. No doubt, you can think of a time when after reading a publication, you thought: ‘That is exactly what I needed! It is as if Jehovah had that written just for me!’ That is not a coincidence. Through these provisions, Jehovah does instruct and guide us.

    WT 15 Nov 2013 - "At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. (4) Now is the time for any who may be putting their trust in secular education, material things, or human institutions to adjust their thinking. The elders must stand ready to help any who may now be wavering in their faith."

  • Tom Harley
    Tom Harley

    The trouble with any hate group is that they feed upon themselves. Negative experiences are intensified in their retelling and anything positive is blown away. Their grip on reality becomes skewed. This is true no more here than with other hate groups, but also no less. It is even true with us, except that we are not a hate group, except that to the extent we follow the Psalm 97 route to 'hate what God hates,' I suppose we are.

    Even there, however, it is hate what God hates, not who. To the extent the who embraces the what with gusto, it becomes a challenge to separate the two, but still the effort to focus on the what and not the who.

    Generally, a group that cares about accuracy welcomes a behaving source from the other side, for they recognize it as a pathway to stay grounded and and keep a good grip on how things really are. However, if they insist upon insulting the visitor, calling him a troll and such, he goes away, because he infers by their remarks that they want him to.

    And if they throw absurdly long comments his way, which are longer still because they link to other long sources, he may not go away, but he surely rolls his eyes. I mean, c'mon. If my own people throw something that long my way, I will do no more than skim it, and may toss it all together. What - does one think I have nothing else to do? If your turn comes on the school for your 5 minute talk, you cannot expect the audience to be paying rapt attention at the 2 hour mark.

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