Poll suggests world hostile to US

by Simon 203 Replies latest social current

  • Jayson
    Jayson

    Realist from 170,000 down to 10,000 see the progress we are making. Now remember hun we are still on the museum we need to work through this to help you come back to reality. I can't do it for you but I also know that you can't do it alone. I'm here for you.

    http://www.techcentralstation.com/1051/defensewrapper.jsp?PID=1051-350&CID=1051-060503B

    here are some clips

    Suppose, for the sake of argument, that this is true - that the Bush administration told a big whopping lie about its motive(s). Does this show that the war was unjustified? Not at all. First, motives are not reasons. A badly motivated person can do the right thing (by accident, as it were), just as a well-motivated person can do the wrong thing. That this is so is reflected in a number of common sayings, such as "It's the thought that counts," "The road to hell is paved with good intentions," and "You did the right thing for the wrong reason." The first two suggest that the act is wrong but well-meaning, the third that the act is right in spite of its poor or improper motivation.


    Third, suppose President Bush in fact had no reputable motive in going to war. Suppose he had only disreputable motives, such as defending his daddy's honor. Does this show that the war is unjustified, morally speaking? Again, the answer is no. Justification is objective; motivation is subjective. The war can be justified as an act of self-defense or liberation of a people (to name just two of many justifications) even if the person waging the war doesn't understand it in those terms - even if he or she doesn't view those as justifications. For consider: Either there is a justification for the war (objectively speaking) or there is not. If there is, then it doesn't matter what motivated President Bush. If there isn't, then it doesn't matter what motivated President Bush. Either way, it doesn't matter what motivated President Bush.

    As far as the justification of war in Iraq is concerned, President Bush's motives are irrelevant. Why, then, has the public debate focused so sharply, to the point of harping, on his motives? Why the constant refrain to the effect that the war is "about oil" or a way to "finish what his father started" or an attempt to "distract attention from the economy"? I have racked my brain for an answer to this question. I believe it is one part hatred of the president and all that he stands for, and one part confusion. The philosopher, qua philosopher, can deal with the latter. Perhaps a psychotherapist will have to be called in to deal with the former.

    Keith Burgess-Jackson, J.D., Ph.D., is Associate Professor of Philosophy, Department of Philosophy and Humanities, The University of Texas at Arlington.

    Did you read that Bush haters? Psychotherapy is available to help you with your illness. This will clear the way to help you with your confusion.

    I would like to add on the above link there is an opinion poll which shows that a massive 87% of respondences state that the US had justification to invade Iraq. Now this should close this matter with Simon for all time the poll states that the US was justified. Case closed.

  • Angharad
    Angharad
    An- You are good at twisting word. See again someone even avoiding a serial thread theme is now evidence used to call anti war people victims. Truly pathetic.

    If this is not a war thread then why do you keep hounding? it [the war theme] Unless the thread always carried that theme over from Simons last threads.

    Because SP posted a list of links as evidence of Simon's Anti americanism and a lot of them were war related, which is why I asked her the question. I'm not twisting anything.

    WH I mentioned in my last post the reason Simon posted it

    Yes this thread is about a poll and a tv program that is on tonight - it is topical to the discussions that have taken place here lately and that is why Simon posted it and also to let people know its on and they can watch it if they wish.
  • Jayson
    Jayson

    I claim you are twisting things because most of us are ready to drop this issue but Simon won't and then he claims he is a victim. You claim he is a victim. It's pathetic.

    An,

    FYI I don't think that Simon is unamerican or antiamerica so much as just closed minded and bigoted on this issue. Englishman more than him by far but Simon keeps opening the door. The show like the BBC is just propaganda. Simon hates Bush and likes to use his web site as a means to vent his propaganda filled head. And for now he has an audience. We love and respect him. It is to bad that his hate for American political affairs is more important to him than us.

    The only way to deal with a whiney left thinker (most of whom have been passive for quite a while) is to not give them anyone to listen to. Soon that will be where we are. But for now Simon can enjoy the flaming wars he has a passion for.

    "Pass the popcorn"

  • Realist
    Realist

    Jayson,

    thank you soo much for your concern!

    Suppose, for the sake of argument, that this is true - that the Bush administration told a big whopping lie about its motive(s). Does this show that the war was unjustified? Not at all.

    thats sounds almost exactly like the WT phrase regarding 1914. <does that mean 1914 was not significant? absolutely not!>

  • Simon
    Simon
    I claim you are twisting things because most of us are ready to drop this issue but Simon won't and then he claims he is a victim. You claim he is a victim. It's pathetic.

    I haven't claimed to be a victim and neither has Angharad. However, I won't sit by and let people put false labels on me. That would be pathertic.

    FYI I don't think that Simon is unamerican or antiamerica so much as just closed minded and bigoted on this issue. Englishman more than him by far but Simon keeps opening the door. The show like the BBC is just propaganda. Simon hates Bush and likes to use his web site as a means to vent his propaganda filled head. And for now he has an audience. We love and respect him. It is to bad that his hate for American political affairs is more important to him than us.

    No, "closed minded and bigoted" would be refusing to read and understand and acknowledge the truth. The BBC does not resort to propaganda and has the highest standards of journalism recognised around the world. Other news agencies such as Fox are less impressive. Yes, I hate Bush because I think he is a dangerous threat to the world both frmo a stability / security point of view and environmentally. And before you start whining that I'm not American - this is MY world and my childrens world and we have a right to have our say. I will have my say while I believe that those running things are ruining it for their own ends. It includes all leaders and governments but like people keep reminding us, America is the leader.

    The only way to deal with a whiney left thinker (most of whom have been passive for quite a while) is to not give them anyone to listen to. Soon that will be where we are. But for now Simon can enjoy the flaming wars he has a passion for.

    If I'm a "whiney left thinker" are you an "ignorant right non-thinker" ?

    I do not like flame wars and you'll struggle to find instances of me taking part in them. Not so you and people like you who on numerous occassions do not discuss the topic but become defensive and aggressive when valid points are made that you simply do not like or refuse to accept.

    I do not care if closed minded people only want to hear their own opinions - they are welcome to leave, I know some have. I would rather have 1 sensible person who can discuss things in an adult and reasonable way than 10 people spouting rhetoric.

    It is not the main topic of this board but I believe it is the most important topic of our current generation and may set the future direction of world events for the next few decades at least.

  • WildHorses
    WildHorses

    16-Jun-03 15:50----------------- 17-Jun-03 16:06----------------184 post

    isn't that enough?

  • riz
    riz

    Stop the Insanity!

  • Jayson
    Jayson

    WH- Nope Simon won't start a new anti war/bush/americka/jay thread until this onw hits 500.

    Simon I said you have a right to your opinion in this thread. You have never refuted anything that I have put up and only thrown back emotionism. Even when I start to walk away I get the perverbial push. You and your kind sure as hell cry the victim and if you deny that then you are more patholigical in your Bush obession than I thought. Did you ever consider that maybe just maybe your TV program the BBC which has been proven to be putting out false reporting about Iraq is so flooding the media airwaves of Europe with anti Bush retoric to take the pressure off of EU woes? To take the pressure off of your own leaders and the disaster in the relm of economy and foriegn policy that they have made of things. Like I have been saying you have nothing to add about cleaning up the mess in your Nation mush less the world but you have threads reaching the thousand mark about the problems of mine. Which only add up to one theme you keep putting out "I hate Bush." In my book that equals a fanatic. Did you ever consider that my postion is that I support the ideals of freeing Iraq from Saddam. Not because Bush can look real cool leaning on the podium. It's just that I think that Iraq deserves to be rebuilt and if we waited for Europe to get around to it it would be like the last 100 years. If Bush was willing to get the job done then I'm good to go. It's the act of action and not just the man that I support.

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    Jason:

    You have done an excellent job in debate..

    The main point is that some here have factually rebutted the naysayer, blame US first Crowd and the Bourgeoisophobes who put up a constant barrage of one-sided viewpoints, where other viewpoints are not welcome, or branded with names and insults.

    When you corner most people like these, you get the circular reasoning and rationalizations, instead of agreements, or at least a more balanced claim.....Its all on the record, unless they start screwing with that too.....

  • StinkyPantz
    StinkyPantz

    Ang-

    So you are just repeating that accusation without knowing all the facts yourself and reading what he has said in context of the threads concerned.

    I repeated what I had been told, yes. Several people told me Simon was being anti-US. If someone kept accusing me of this, I'd lighten up a bit. That's at least fair.

    So again does being anti war = anti american?

    Nope. Even if some of Simon's thread were supposed to be about "war" they very quickly turned into U.S. bashing.

    SIMON DID NOT WRITE OR DESIGN THE POLL so how doesit have anything to do with him apart from the fact he posted a link to it.

    Whenever I post a link, it shows something about my personality. It at the very least shows that I am interested in the story. So yes, it does have something to do with him.

    **Here is my primary concern. Threads like this one will cause flame wars! It doesn't take a genius to figure this out. I know because I have started several threads about controversial issues and I have been willing to take the heat for it. But when someone asks Simon why he continues to start threads knowing full well that they will upset some people, he calls them childish and says that they are being defensive. Of course we'll be defensive. Should we simply accepts everything what people say with a big ol' smile?

    -If the point was to education Americans about America's foreign policy, I think we got educated 3 threads ago.

    -If the point was to let us know that the rest of the whole is hostile to us, we at the very least figured that out on 9/11

    -If Simon wants Americans to take action, just say so.

    -If the point was to once again point out that America sucks, we got it.

    Editted to add: I agree that everyone has the right to their opinion, but don't call someone childish just because they don't completely agree.

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