The Lost Qos

by peacefulpete 16 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    The names of the gods of Palestine and surrounding regions are known to most of us only through the condemnations of the OT writers. Baal Peor, Hadad, Chemosh, Molech/Milkom Dagon, etc. It is therefore surprising that the main deity of the sister nation to the south, Edom is never mentioned. His name was Qos or Qaus. Many accept the name means "bow" as in the weapon. (or rainbow) As usual this is a large topic and this is a brief summary.

    WIKI: Qos (Edomite: 𐤒𐤅‬‬𐤎 Qāws, later Qôs;[1] Hebrew: קוֹסQōs)[2] also Qaus (Akkadian: 𒋡𒍑 Qa-uš), or Koze (Greek: Kωζαι Kōzai) was the national god of the Edomites.[3] He was the Idumean structural parallel to Yahweh. The name occurs only twice in the Old Testament in the Book of Ezra and Nehemiah as an element in a personal name, Barqos ("son of Qos" (or Qos beams forth) referring to the 'father' of a family or clan of perhaps Edomite/Idumaean nəṯīnīm or temple helpers returning from the Babylonian exile.[6][7]

    I had a thread earlier regarding the Nethinim as foreign Temple servants that left us with lots of questions. Here I'm taking special focus on the Edomite name of a Nethinim with a Qos theophoric element. So clearly the writers of the OT knew the name Qos. This then makes the lack of condemnation of the God difficult to explain.

    Notice in the Wiki quote, it says he was the Idumean (later term for region called Edom) "structural parallel to Yahweh." It further comments:

    Unlike the chief god of the Ammonites (Milcom) and the Moabites (Chemosh), the Tanakh refrains from explicitly naming the Edomite Qōs.[6][16] The omission may be explained, according to some scholars, by assuming there were close similarities between Yahweh with Qōs, that would have made rejection of the latter difficult.[8]

    You know all this is related back to the Kennite hypothesis that assumes OT passages that describe YHWH (Yah) as having come from Edom/Seir reflect an accurate mnemonic history and is confirmed by a number of extrabiblical inscriptions. In addition, we have the origin story of Jacob/Israel stealing the blessing from Esau/Edom which in light of the hypothesis, seems to be a suggestion that Edom should have been the chosen blessed nation.

    To cut to the chase, there are a few theories regarding YaH's (Yah is likely the earlier form) relationship with Qos. One well argued position is that when Yah's worship relocated to Judah, Qos was adopted to replace him to affirm national identity apart from Judah. However it seems to me another scholarly proposal is less complicated and fits the evidence better. Namely that they are the same deity, Qos being an epithet for Yah.

    A promising proposed solution to the difficult passage at Prov 30:29 might lend some credence to this:

    There are three that are stately of stride, four that carry themselves well:30:30 The lion is mightiest among the beasts, and recoils before none; 30:31 The greyhound, the he-goat, the king whom (none dares resist).

    The last phrase is very difficult, and some other translations are “and the king when he harangues his people” (NJB) and “and a king whose troops are with him” (NKJV).king secure against revolt (NIV) and the king, against whom there is no rising up.(ERV)and the king at the head of his people (NAB) etc.

    Given the graphic similarity between the final mem and samekh, Theodor Vriezen suggested long ago reading ומלך אל קוס עמו “and the king with whom the god Qos is.”[17] The original meaning—perhaps the proverb itself originated in an Edomite context—was lost either because of Judean objections to referencing this deity positively or out of a later scribes’ ignorance of the meaning of Qos.

    Additionally there are a number of other names in the OT that have theophoric elements related to this discussion, such as:

    Kushaiah (קושיהו)— father of Ethan, a Merarite Levite who accompanies the ark of God on its return to Jerusalem (1 Chr 15:17).[11] The name may include both the theophoric element Qos[12] as well as YHWH, perhaps reflecting a syncretistic “Qaus is YHWH.”[13]

    The mention of a number of Edomites serving both at the Temple and in the military might suggest a religious conversion but it might also suggest simply that as Edomites they simply worshipped the same god by a different name.

    Anyway, I'm hoping this might inspire some interest. Take a few hours and read some of the links and citations. Sorry about the messy formatting. I'm watching TV at the same time. LOL

    Amzallag, N. (2009). Yahweh, the Canaanite God of Metallurgy? Journal for the Study of the Old Testament, 33(4), 387–404. https://doi.org/10.1177/0309089209105686

    Qos (deity) - Wikipedia

    ‘Yahweh in Israel—Qaus in Edom?’, JSOT 4 (1977), pp. 28-34.

    Edom’s God Qos is the Hebrew God Yhwh | Arabian Prophets

    Why the Bible Is Mute about Qos, the Edomite God - TheTorah.com

    God Under Another Name?| National Catholic Register (ncregister.com)

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    Crickets

  • Magnum
    Magnum

    Oh, the crickets from me were unintentional; I just saw this. I'm EXTREMELY interested in this kind of material. In fact, I'm going to save this page for future reference. I'm going to try to look at all the info tonight (just skimmed it - at work now). I think some of us don't realize how many people see and are benefitted by what we post.

    I take note of material like this, book recommendations, etc. that I see on this site. Thanks much!

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    Thank you for sharing, Pete.

    Inquiring minds may wonder why Moses, when he ran away from Egypt, went to Midian, found shelter with the Kennite clan, and married the daughter of Reuel (Jethro), a PRIEST of the Kennites, who later on is seen offering acceptable sacrifice to the god of the hebrews, together with Moses and Abraham. ( Exodus 18:9-12). Clearly, the Kennite / Midianite deity worshipped by Reuel must have been identified syncreticly with Yah of the hebrews.

  • Magnum
    Magnum

    EdenOne, Very thought-provoking.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    Wonderful, glad someone read it.

    EdenOne,,I'm cautious of assuming any of the Moses narrative is historical but like you said it contains elements that may be. While a number of historical persons have been proposed to have inspired the Egyptian Moses character and name (unsurprising given the Egyptian hegemony over Palestine), his function in Exodus seems to be to tie together a number of narrative traditions. Some of those traditions were that YHWH was from the south. Recall the Abraham stories locate him to the north of Israel and he only knows El Shaddai. It's a complicated process of merging traditions, some of which occurred when Israel's priests fled the Assyrians but most of this blending took place during the Persian period.

    I find the article connecting Yah/Yahweh with the copper guilds to be pretty intriguing. While some of the author's arguments are not as conclusive as he suggests, the sheer number of clues becomes persuasive. I know there is a paywall without a university connection, but if someone wants I can share some of it. I just thought it was a bit wide of the Qos discussion.

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne
    I'm cautious of assuming any of the Moses narrative is historical but like you said it contains elements that may be.
    Naturally, one must take the ancient bible narratives as amalgamations of historical bits reworked over and over to fit a religious agenda. But when peeling layer after layer of fabrication, some tenuous picture starts to emerge, one where the early hebrews were polytheistic, and Yah was one of many deities worshipped by an assortment of semi-nomadic people in northen arabia - something that the later scribes and editors were eager to conceal because it didn't fit their strict monotheistic and ethnic uniqueness narratives.
  • llubrevlis2000
    llubrevlis2000

    PeacefulPete there are lots of possible names of fallen angels in the Bible and other books. The book of Enoch has most of those names you mentioned.

    These fallen angels are the current rulers of this world and there is one or two at the top of most of the secret societies around the world. The top of the masons is Jahbelon and Moleck and the top of skull and bones is Baal. Ect ect

    these are the same demons who wanted to be worshiped in the Bible times, they like demonic sacrifices of babies ect and this still goes on today in secret it’s absolutely horrible.

    They are masters of deception and much more powerful and intelligent than humans.

    they will try to confuse and mislead.

    They will try to make people think all sorts of things remember they are far wiser than any human.

    I personally have many many questions about the Bible that I don’t fully understand and I think if we are all honest we all do.

    but at the end of the day my current beliefs are that God (YHWH or Jehovah if you add the J but that may not be accurate) never had a beginning he is from time indefinite. The firstborn of all creation is his firstborn son. Call him Jesus if you ad the J but just like all names in the Bible starting with J it’s as close to the original as we could guess.

    then together they made lots of other spirit creatures with free will. Some joined the rebellion and they are trying to deceive and mislead you. Hence your post asking many good questions.

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne
    llubrevlis2000 - "These fallen angels are the current rulers of this world (...) these are the same demons who wanted to be worshiped in the Bible times (...) at the end of the day my current beliefs are that God (YHWH or Jehovah if you add the J but that may not be accurate) never had a beginning he is from time indefinite. The firstborn of all creation is his firstborn son. Call him Jesus if you ad the J"


    Ain't it an irony that you hold such beliefs, and claim that all ancient deities are in fact demons, when the handle you chose is, well, Lord Nandi ...



    ... or Ba'al ...


    ... or Apis ...


    Just sayin' ... 😇

  • llubrevlis2000
    llubrevlis2000

    Not all ancient deities. The Bible is clear of all the spirit creatures some joined the rebellion but there were plenty of angels who did not join and not defile themselves with the good looking women.

    those spirit creatures who did choose to join the deceiver Satan, are very very clever and want to deceive.

    they will cause all kinds of doubts about the truth from the Bible

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