by teejay 50 Replies latest jw friends
Is there media in the U.S. that's not Jewish controlled?
so true
These laws are intended for the evil ones, the bad guys. If I live a good moral life, I just don't see where someone is going to bother me. I have nothing to hide. So what if they check?
I agree
Well, I for one have nothing to hide, so I have no problems whatsoever with anyone knowing what books I might check out at a library. I firmly believe, that if I am a good guy, work hard, provide for my familly in all areas, enjoy my friends, and obey my personal morals, I will never encounter anyone from the government. No one is going to be checking up on me, and if they do, I have a clean slate. I have no issues. So check all you want. I have nothing to hide. These laws are intended for the evil ones, the bad guys. If I live a good moral life, I just don't see where someone is going to bother me. I have nothing to hide. So what if they check? -- freedom96,
Freedom96,
In a perfect world with perfect people giving the orders and perfect people acting on those orders, I couldn't agree more. Since none of that is the case...
Since 9/11, with increasing frequency there have been innocent people not only arrested but arrested AND detained on suspicion of terrorist activity alone. After days or even weeks of being held, often without access to counsel, these people have been released without so much as an "I'm sorry. We f**ked up" let alone "Hey, Mr. Innocent, here's $10,000 for the inconvenience we caused you and your family." "Evidence" at first thought to justify the arrest was later found to have been misinterpreted or totally in error.
The Patriot Act and the spirit with which it is being (mis) used is stretching and overstepping all legal bounds. There was once a time, Freedom96, when what you said was the status quo—"I'm innocent, the law will protect me, so I have nothing to worry about." Those days are becoming extinct.
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Thank you Seawolf for posting that picture. The Time magazine article included either that picture or one just like it, but the online version of the story didn't. A picture is worth... well... you know...
Section 215 of the act allows FBI agents to obtain a warrant from a secret federal court for library or bookstore records of anyone connected to an investigation of international terrorism or spying.
Everytime they look at records, they have to get a warrant. They have to go to a judge and show a cause to look at someone. The FBI can't just walk into a library and demand to see records on Joe Snothead because they feel like it. These provisions have existed to battle organized crime, and used against the pro-life movement for years. So again, what personal right is being violated? Again, who here has experienced the loss of a single freedom a violation of a civil liberty? and then I hear....SILENCE.
hmmmm.....how is going to have these laws at the library going to make anyone safe?? Do terrorists check out books on making bombs, blowing up bridges, bringing down airliners, using guns, etc from the public library? It seems to me this is more along the lines of spying on the common people by a paranoid government.
In fact, according to Finan, less-publicized demands by law enforcement for customer information have become "alarmingly" more frequent over the past two years. And not only independent booksellers, but giants like Borders and Amazon, have been subpoenaed. In perhaps the most egregious case, authorities ordered Amazon to give them a list of all customers in a large part of Ohio who had ordered two sexually oriented CDs. Independent booksellers have been especially hard-hit by these cases. And fighting them without the benefit of a corporate budget or in-house counsel means hefty legal bills and months, if not years, of hassle.
"Big Brother is watching you read." http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2002/02/13/bookstores/
A guy gets busted for hacking. The FBI goes and checks his library (or book-buying records at Barnes and Noble or Amazon, etc) and they see he checked out (or bought) a certain book on network security. They do a check of everyone that's purchased that book and find my name. Am I under surveillance now?
I agree with what teejay said. In a perfect world.......
A lot of this has to do with trusting the government. Stories like the military unable to account for a TRILLION dollars ( http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/05/18/MN251738.DTL ) do not exactly inspire confidence.
np on the pic teejay.
Everytime they look at records, they have to get a warrant. They have to go to a judge and show a cause to look at someone.
Actually....
Section 215 of the act allows FBI agents to obtain a warrant from a secret federal court for library or bookstore records of anyone connected to an investigation of international terrorism or spying.
Unlike conventional search warrants, there is no need for agents to show that the target is suspected of a crime or possesses evidence of a crime. As the Santa Cruz signs indicate, the law prohibits libraries and bookstores from telling their patrons, or anyone else, that the FBI has sought the records.
the law prohibits libraries and bookstores from telling their patrons, or anyone else, that the FBI has sought the records.
WELL DUH, I'm gonna investigate a suspected terrorist, but go ahead Mr Librarian Knowsalot, tell them they're under suspicion so they can leave or clean up their act and hide evidence...SMOOTH.
hmmmm.....how is going to have these laws at the library going to make anyone safe?? Do terrorists check out books on making bombs, blowing up bridges, bringing down airliners, using guns, etc from the public library? It seems to me this is more along the lines of spying on the common people by a paranoid government.
Actually, yes, they do check them out, access them on the internet from library computers, etc.
By the way, I WANT you all to be concerned about the violation of rights and civil liberties, it keeps us strong as a nation.
Unlike conventional search warrants, there is no need for agents to show that the target is suspected of a crime or possesses evidence of a crime. As the Santa Cruz signs indicate, the law prohibits libraries and bookstores from telling their patrons, or anyone else, that the FBI has sought the records.
I used to live in santacruz. I can tell you that sign kept me from checking out alot of stuff that i was curious about.
B'
Teejay,
I do think that if the US were to grab someone, and they are innocent, and it caused financial hardship on them, they should be given a fair amount of money for the inconvience.
I do find it hard to believe that these people are picked at random. There must have been some sort of reason for them being brought in. Perhaps they had friends that were involved in something they shouldn't be. Perhaps they visited a building that suspicious behavior was taking place. Many times they are here illegally.
If I were hanging around some shady people, I could expect that at some time I would be questioned about it. That is just common sense. If I hung around a drug house, I could expect to be questioned. If I hung around a religious place that tought violence, I could expect to be questioned. If I hung around the mafia, I could expect to be questioned.
The key is to not surround yourself around edgy situations.
I would prefer the US be a little over cautious for everyones benefit, but if they truly are innocent, then some sort of fair compensation. That is fair, I have no problem with that.
OR,
We can just wait til they blow something up.
Well, I've read in somewhere that big brother even snoops on certain web sites people visit. I don't think there's much that can be done about it.
B'
