Now the Baptist Church is waking up to the Watchtower's scandals

by raymond frantz 15 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • raymond frantz
    raymond frantz

    https://www.jwupdates.com/post/jehovah-s-witnesses-sue-norway-after-registration-revoked

    The following article appeared on Baptist Standard's online edition in JANUARY 18, 2024

    Other Christian denominations are starting to pay attention to the legal cases against the Watchtower and write about it. Like the Watchtower did in yester years with Catholic CSA cases.

    Oslo District Court in Norway is home to an ongoing trial after Norway deregistered the Jehovah’s Witnesses last year.

    WASHINGTON (RNS)—After Norway deregistered the Jehovah’s Witnesses last year, some human rights experts say the nation’s reputation as a bastion of religious freedom could be in question.

    Now, the Jehovah’s Witnesses of Norway are suing the state for revoking their national registration and withholding state funds. According to Jehovah’s Witnesses, they are the first religious group to lose their national registration in Norway, which recognizes more than 700 faith communities.

    The trial, which began Jan. 8, will determine whether some practices of the Jehovah’s Witnesses violate Norway’s Religious Communities Act or whether withdrawing the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ registration violates their right to freedom of religion and freedom of association, as guaranteed in the European Convention on Human Rights.

    “It’s certainly the most important trial about a religious freedom issue in Norway in decades,” Willy Fautré, director of the Brussels-based organization Human Rights Without Frontiers, told Religion News Service.

    Accused of defying Norway’s Religious Communities Act

    In January 2022, Valgerd Svarstad Haugland, the county governor of Oslo and Viken, in Norway, denied Jehovah’s Witnesses state grants for the year 2021 in response to concerns about what she perceived as exclusionary practices(=in layman terms, disfellowshiping practises). The Jehovah’s Witnesses had received the grants, which currently amount to around $1.5 million annually, for three decades.

    These funds typically are used for international disaster relief work(=so next time the Warchtower offers you to help free of your time and energy the "brothers" tell they have received over 45 million crona just from the Norwegian government the past 30 years and get on their bike and do it themselves) and supporting religious activity in Norway, including translating literature and building kingdom halls, said Jørgen Pedersen, spokesperson for Jehovah’s Witnesses in Norway.

    The county governor of Oslo and Viken claimed Jehovah’s Witnesses are forbidden to contact disfellowshipped members, as well as people who voluntarily dissociate, which can hinder a person’s ability to freely withdraw from the group.

    She also argued Jehovah’s Witnesses may disfellowship children who have chosen to be baptized if they break the religious community’s rules, a practice she said constituted “negative social control” and violated children’s rights.(=When assessing whether a type of behaviour constitutes negative social control, consideration shall be given to the age and development of the controlled party, as well as to the principle of the child’s best interests)

    These practices, the county governor argued, defy Norway’s Religious Communities Act.

    We have assessed the offenses as systematic and intentional, and have therefore chosen to refuse grants,” a statement from the county governor said.

    Clarifying stance on disfellowship

    In an email to RNS, Jehovah’s Witnesses spokesperson Jarrod Lopes said Witnesses only disfellowship an unrepentant member who “makes a practice” of serious violations of “the Bible’s moral code.”(=carefully crafted legalistic language at its best)

    Even then, Lopes added, Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t force members to limit or cease association with former congregants, whether they’ve been disfellowshipped or withdrawn voluntarily—that’s up to individuals.

    Congregation elders do not police the personal lives of congregants, nor do they exercise control over the faith of individual Jehovah’s Witnesses,” Lopes wrote.(=that's exactly what they do, in order to get me disfellowshipped they had a minor print my online chat and then post it through the letterbox at the Kingdom Hall because they didn't want to get for harassment and stalking )

    Serious sins that might lead to disfellowship include manslaughter, adultery and drug use, Pedersen explained. A congregation always will try to help an individual restore his or her relationship with God. But if the problem persists, Jehovah’s Witnesses feel compelled to respect the entire Bible, including instructions not to associate with unrepentant sinners, such as 1 Corinthians 5:11.

    Though the Witnesses appealed the county governor’s decision, in September 2022 the Ministry for Children and Families upheld the ruling.

    In October that same year, the county governor said in a press release that unless Jehovah’s Witnesses would “rectify the conditions that led to the refusal of state subsidies,” they would lose registration, which they did a few months later, in December.

    Without its national registration, Jehovah’s Witnesses cannot perform marriages, and they lose entitlement to government grants.(=its all about the money)

    Should the state interpret religious texts?

    The Jehovah’s Witnesses of Norway filed two lawsuits against the state in December 2022—one challenging the denial of state grants and another challenging their loss of registration. Those lawsuits have since been combined.

    Though the Oslo District Court initially granted the Jehovah’s Witnesses an injunction that suspended their deregistration until that case was argued, the Ministry challenged the injunction, and in April 2023, the court removed it.

    As the trial plays out at the District Court of Oslo, Jason Wise, an attorney acting as a consultant on the case for the legal team representing the Jehovah’s Witnesses in Norway, said part of the Witnesses’ argument is that

    1. there is no evidence of harm and

    2. it’s not the place of the state to interpret religious texts.

    The state continues to contend that the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ practices are in conflict with the Religious Communities Act, particularly, they claim, by exposing children to psychological violence.

    Since 2022, Jehovah’s Witnesses have reported an increase in vandalism, harassment and physical assaults in Norway. In September 2022, two Jehovah’s Witnesses in Harstad, Norway, reported that a man screamed at them and repeatedly attempted to hit one of them. That same month, a man in Kristiansand, Norway, reportedly set a Jehovah’s Witnesses mobile display car on fire, and a month later, someone attempted to set fire to a Jehovah’s Witnesses meeting place in Fauske, Norway.

    “What we see now is that the state of Norway is taking a look at my beliefs, saying, we don’t like that, we don’t like that,” said Pedersen. Asking Jehovah’s Witnesses to change their beliefs, he said, is a “violation of my integrity as a person, as a religious person, as a person with a conscience. That’s the core issue of this case.”

    Norway isn’t the only place where Jehovah’s Witnesses’ practices have been under scrutiny. In December, the Belgian Court of Cassation—the highest court in the Belgian judiciary—rejected an appeal of a lower court’s decision, ruling in favor of Jehovah’s Witnesses’ right to avoid contact with former members.

    “Norway is just the tip of another phenomenon,” Fautré said. “That is a source of concern, because we see that there are more and more attempts in Europe by state institutions to interfere and intrude into the teachings and practices of religious groups, which is forbidden by the European Convention. The risk is they would open the door to more court cases against other religious groups.”

    https://www.baptiststandard.com/news/world/jehovahs-witnesses-sue-norway-after-registration-revoked/

  • NotFormer
    NotFormer

    "Even then, Lopes added, Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t force members to limit or cease association with former congregants, whether they’ve been disfellowshipped or withdrawn voluntarily—that’s up to individuals.

    “Congregation elders do not police the personal lives of congregants, nor do they exercise control over the faith of individual Jehovah’s Witnesses,”

    The level of dishonesty here is breathtaking. Remind me again Mr. Lopes: who is the Father of Lies?

    "In an email to RNS, Jehovah’s Witnesses spokesperson Jarrod Lopes said Witnesses only disfellowship an unrepentant member who “makes a practice” of serious violations of “the Bible’s moral code."

    We're talking about children, not unrepentant monsters!

  • raymond frantz
    raymond frantz

    They will do anything for these precious million cronas , Mamon is their real god

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange
    The level of dishonesty here is breathtaking. Remind me again Mr. Lopes: who is the Father of Lies?

    You must be forgetting that it is not lying -- it is Theocratic Warfare!

    It's not lying if those to whom you are (not?) lying do not deserve to know the truth.

  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim

    Theocratic Warfare is not lying.

    As long as what you're saying benefits the Borg.

    Anything you say which is ""not completely honest" is considered lying,, according to them.

    But you can be hiding,,lying about something if it benefits the Borg. Which is considered "theocratic warfare". Just sugar coated to make it sound like something better.

  • was a new boy
    was a new boy

    Baptist Church likely sweating right along with Jehovah's Witnesses involved with the PA. Grand Jury.

    SBC under investigation: What’s this talk of a subpoena and grand jury?

    'Meanwhile, the Department of Justice is neither confirming nor denying that it is investigating, saying “grand jury matters are secret.”

    https://christianindex.org/stories/sbc-under-investigation-whats-this-talk-of-a-subpoena-and-grand-jury,30512

  • NotFormer
    NotFormer

    Ah, yes, hide the truth behind a catch cry like "theocratic warfare". 🙄

    The Watchtower does a lot of Orwellian doublespeak, doesn't it? "Cruelty is kindness", for their disfellowshipping policy. "Lying for The Truth", and so on.

  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim

    Please,, if you haven't read Raymond Franz' books,,I urge you to do so.

    Crisis of Conscience(2018) is readily available on amazon to purchase a personal copy and kindle for your tablet or personal device. To read anywhere,,anytime.

    In Search of Christian Freedom is a little tougher to track down. Its no longer in print and obviously not for kindle yet. It remains yet to be seen if/when it will be released again. You can get a copy if you track one down at a reasonable price.

    You can about how this "theocratic warfare" is employed.

  • NotFormer
    NotFormer

    Not a lot of detail about what the SBC is being accused of. The Independent Fundamentalist Baptist movement can be a breeding ground for CSA and other types of abuse. The pastor's word is law, and he can impose his will on anyone and suppress any attempts at getting justice through the legal system (sound familiar?)

    The case of Jack Hyles and his successor Jack Schaap is a great example. Jack Schaap recently got released from prison. It'll be interesting to see if anyone will be gullible enough to let him pastor another church.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot
    raymond frantz - They will do anything for these precious million cronas, Mamon is their real god.”

    I don’t think it’s greed for its own sake, per se…

    a good con artist always has more than one grift in reserve in case the primary one goes sideways.

    I think it’s more desperation ‘cause the money’s drying up, and they don’t really have any other grift.

    They cannot let the Org go broke, because if it goes broke, it can’t function…

    …and if it can’t function, it can’t survive…

    …and if it can’t survive, it can’t be “God’s Exclusive Earthly Organization”.

    And that prospect is unthinkable to them, hence the desperation.

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