by Fisherman 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Don't forget about Acts 14 great tribulation.
Act 14:21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,
Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
The G.T. isn't going to erupt in mass deaths & destruction
” no flesh will be saved” that’s massive, so potentially it can.
But to those living it is empirical evidence of God and Christ.
@ VH7 - Armageddon will subsequently be a totally separate event which deals with the removal of all that's evil on earth, just as has been done heaven - "Your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven." (Matthew 6:10; Revelation 12:9)
Acts 14:22 is not referring to a great tribulation - a single prophetic event - it's pointing out to Christians that being followers of Christ will bring hardships/afflictions/persecution.
@ FM - It's wrong to attribute the wording Jesus used to describe the 1st century great tribulation in Matthew as being the same as the one in Revelation. To do so totally dismisses his guarantee, "no, nor will occur again," and willfully chooses to ignore the scriptural context between Revelation 2:22 and Revelation 7:14.
Read all 3 verses again, and then provide me with scriptural/logical proof that contextually, Jesus wasn't discussing the same G.T. in both of the Revelation verses. (approx. 7 minutes apart in his conversation with John)
The org wants JW's to conflate these two separate great tribulations - to "prove" their dogma.
World war 2 the the worst tribulation ever...we got over it.
World war 2 the the worst tribulation ever...we got over it.
Only to those individuals that felt it.
1st centurygreat tribulation in Matthew as being the same as the one in Revelation. To do so totally dismisses his guarantee
Not only Mathew but in all three gospels. These also describe events such as separation of sheep and goats and miraculous signs in the heavens and seeing the son if man, etc.. These events did not transpire in 70. Jesus reference to not occurring again obviously refers to the great tribulation before Armageddon but Jesus was also foretelling the fall of Jerusalem and the great tribulation Jews would experience. That tribulation was not worldwide so the book of Rev also adds features and events to the greater fulfillment of the prophecy as JW interprets it. 2 great tribulations are involved: the one involved Jerusalem and the involving all of mankind and we at JW see they are parallel —and reasonably ironically, and poetically, Jesus was referencing both in the same prophecy as JW see it.
Zane, flooding the thread with the entire article doesn’t give it more weight. A reference to it suffices. Also it’s only commentary and because it specifically describes THE doesn’t invalidate that Jesus also prophesied about it. Early christians may have concluded that 70 was the fulfillment of Jesus prophecy referring to tribulation but since Revelation which was written after written after 70 also refers to a tribulation, namely the great tribulation that would is explain that JC would not return in kingdom power in 70 —“…and what will be the sign of your parousia.”
@ Fisherman - ...Rev also adds features and events to the greater fulfillment of the prophecy...
I'll stick with Jesus' version that there would only be one G.T. featuring all the signs he gave, and that it would "never occur again." No greater fulfillment.
'tribulation' (thlipseōs) is a word used in a number (45) of texts in the NT meaning 'hardship' and often used to mean 'persecution' of Christians. (eg. Acts 11:19, 2Cor1:8) Revelation was written at a time of persecution and expectation was for this to increase and culminate in all Christians being killed and going to heaven.
As an aside, the "the" as in "the great persecution".is just grammatically called for as this sentence follows a colorful description of that persecution. Much like the 'the' in Rev 1:9 is grammatically called for.
"I, John, your brother and partner in 'the tribulation' and the kingdom"
Yes the writer anticipated this persecution to come to a final head, so in that way the persecution anticipated in Rev 7 was greater than previous persecution.
Well, It didn't happen, in fact in time the Christians became the persecutors. And here we are 2000 years later with some here still trying to shoehorn it into JW chiliast doctrine.
stick with Jesus' version
You mean your version of what Jesus said.
