Freedom of speech?

by The Rebel 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  The Rebel

  on the contrary Simon, I believe Otto Frank was a victim, and that the loss of his family does merit sympathy, I am also very sorry his daughters and wife perished. They along with the millions of others who also died in that war, were all individuals, and each of those life's had a story.

  I had the privalige of having met Marion Pretzel, when he was in Harpendon. Marion wrote " Diary of a young forger" he was a holocaust survivor and the book he wrote, was very important to me as I grew up as a child. He did not object when I challenged him on his escape from the Janowska concentration camp. I challenged him because the only living witness Simon Wiesenthal wrote in the introduction of the hard back cover " I must confess that in spite of my good memory, I simply can't remmber that short episode of how I helped Marion Pretzel, escape from the " Ostbahn-Ausbesse"

  Marion didn't take offense with the question, why should he?

  I was also privaliged to associate with concentration camp survivors, when I worked at Moss Bross in Coventry Garden. I was a college kid and they worked in the tailors dept. On many occasions I got my inside leg measurements wrong, and had to rush to the top floor tailors dept. The tailors were all holocaust survivors, and I still remember my ignorant question of why they had numbers on the arm. ( I was only 18/19) We became friends and I shared cups of coffee with them.

  The fact is Otto Frank has now been acknowledged as co-author of the book. Therefore Anne Frank is now co-author. So I don't believe the Anne Frank book was misrepresented by the "slightest degree" when she was attributed as the soul author. It became one of the greatest selling books in history because it was co-written by Otto Frank.

  This is why the Authors credit should be acknowledged. If it's been misrepresented only to the slightest degree " Anne Frank" should be credited as the writer. However if it has been misrepresented to a greater degree then quite rightly " Otto Frank" should be credited with his contribution to the writting of the story.

  Would any one disagree with that?

  I hope not as I think my statement is both fair and balanced and certainly I believe would meet with the approval of Marion Pretzel, and my consentration camp survivors whom I befriended at Moss Bross.

  The Rebel.
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  LisaRose

  How is the headmaster wanting to meet with you a free speech issue? He just wants to meet with you, you aren't being sent to jail.
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  The Rebel

  Well LisaRose, at least I won't be canned. I remmber that as a kid in the 80s, I was in the head masters room bent over backwards and ouch. And then I spent the rest of the day worrying my brother would tell my mum and dad. Strangely I have forgotten why I got canned.

  The Rebel.
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  Caedes

  As far as I can see all of the criticisms leveled at the diaries are from Nazi sympathisers, so it's not as if the ones criticizing it have an agenda at all!
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  jamesmahon

  The Rebel

  I don't really understand your point with all this. Your child comes home and says they are studying Anne Frank. This could open up a whole world of conversation with your child about oppression, the danger of nationalism, could it happen again and if so how could you stop it, "what would you do?" etc. etc. etc.

  But no. What matters to you is how much Anne's father was involved in editing the story. So strange.

  As an aside with a German partner and having been to Berlin recently I do think that the Germans were victims in this like everyone else. That the real issue was Nationalism in all its ugly glory. The belief that somehow you are special and better than other people by virtue of your birth. I fear that the lesson of where this ends up has been learned by the Germans and precious few else on the planet.

  Anyway - hope your daughter feels enriched by her conversation with you about correctly attributing authorship to a diary of a child who had been too dead to publish it herself.
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  Simon

  Here's what I think The Rebel: I think you are intentionally trying to make an issue about "free speech" by creating a controversial topic with idiotic ideas that you hope will be shut down to prove your point, whatever you imagine it is. If you actually understood the concept of free speech at all you would realize that nothing I can do on this forum can impact how it applies to you - if I lock a topic, delete a post or prevent someone from posting their free speech is not impacted in the slightest.

  As the previous poster correctly pointed out, no one in their right mind would, on learning that their child was going to study the story of Anne Frank, decide that the most pressing matter was to make an issue of the books authorship. So you are either a nut or a loon IMO.

  Also, learn to spell or use a spell checker. When you mis-spell words it makes you look more uneducated than your opinions alone manage to do.
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  talesin

  The Rebel ,

  I would wager a guess that you are from central Canada, perhaps Alberta. There is good reason why the teacher would want to meet with you, considering the history of your province re: the Holocaust.

  As for your assertions re The Diary of Anne Frank, you have already been proven wrong (as well as others who agreed with you as to the veracity of its critics), so I will not address that issue.

  As to Canada's history with holocaust deniers and hate speech, I offer you these links as a form of education Read them if you want, I care NOT. If you wish to join the ranks of Keegstra and Malcolm Ross, so be it.

  http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/jim-keegstra-notorious-canadian-holocaust-denier-dead-at-80-1.2674372

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Ross_(school_teacher
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  KateWild

  As the thread has progressed I think I have lost the point of it.

  People did hide Jews from the Nazis all over Europe......and every story that has been told has been critiqued. But the truth of the matter is that it happened and many non Jews disagreed with Hitler.

  Kate xx
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  The Rebel

  Simon thank you for the post. Yes you are correct I raised this post to challenge my thinking on free speech. The only thing you are incorrect with is I was sure this O.P would not be closed down. To clarify before I started my O.P I researched the forum history and noted many years ago a similar O.P was started, with most posters agreeing the diary was a fraud. However that O.P did not create a discussion from those that belived the diary genuine. I genuinely believe this forum is better than that, that an O.P should create debates and challenge our thinking. That was my intention,

  Now for my conclusion to the O.P.

  In my honest opinion:-

  A) I believe if the diary of Anne Frank is to be " credited" with Otto Frank as co-author, it will in the future ( even today) correctly raise questions about the authenticity of the diary.

  B) If the Anne Frank foundation is to be allowed that free-speech and to say Otto Frank is co-author then it means we should follow the argument through and that means they are saying we have been lied to for years and that the book was in-fact co-written by Otto Frank.

  C) If we don't agree that " Otto Frank" is co-author, then one of the most important books ever written,should have voices to challenge this because:-

  D) If such ( silent) free-speech allowes another persons diary, thoughts, views and opinions be credited to another author, I say so much for free-speech. Do you agree?

  Now back to my O.P, my boy of 10 is being taught at school about the Anne Frank diary, to me this means he is being taught about History, and either the words of Anne Frank inspired history, inspired millions or it was bullshit. If it was bullshit I don't think it should be taught, if it was true then Anne should be credited with the work.

  This is why I make an issue of the book authorship.

  The Rebel.

  p.s apologies in advance for the poor spelling:-(
• 

  Caedes

  But the bigger issue I believe is that it's a properganda (sic) book, designed to make money on an an innocent girl. To do that they created in that diary an innocent first first love Anne & Peter, victims of a black and white world. It's totalproperganda (sic) and the message of hatred to the German nation I believe abhorrent.

  I am a little confused about whether you think the big issue is freedom of speech, who authored the book or just espousing the views of Nazi sympathisers?

  You are free to shout out how much you agree with Nazi sympathisers, it was written by Anne Frank and edited after her death, so what? Books are edited all the time, especially when you consider it was her diary. I can't see that keeping in the personal aspects of the diary would be of benefit to the reader. Neither of these points change the facts of what happened, she was caught and killed in a concentration camp by Nazis for the 'crime' of being Jewish. That is the biggest issue not your petty arguments over free speech or authorship.

  What this means is that every reasonable person reading this thread just thinks you are either a Nazi sympathiser or just a complete and utter idiot, which is it?