Ive been asked to do a talk for a born-again church... (page 3)

bebu

These are all great suggestions! I especially like JeffT's. Perhaps other points can be made thru audience participation as well. False prophecy,. bad chronolgy, shunning and the F&D slave issues seem to be the most important, although I've found the UN scandal makes a pretty sharp impression on those I've talked with informally--everyone loves a scandal, it seems.

Toward the end of your presentation, I also think that it would be well to explain to listeners that people that come out of any cult group are often the walking wounded, and if they ever meet ex-JWs in everyday life, to take the time to show extra kindness and compassion. (Is there special advice you would can tell them from your own experience in what they could say/do to help an ex-JW? Here's your moment.)

Just some thoughts...

bebu

DJ

og,

Hi! I remember you. How rude you were and still are! I told you once that it appears that you are quite ignorant to what exactly a born again Christian is. You may have a clue or a distorted view but it is obvious that you aren't fully aware of the meaning. It is not a merely a sect of Chritianity but it encompasses let me see....the methodists, presbyterians. lutherans, seventh day adventists, baptists, non-denominational, etc. etc. etc.....it is NOT a denomination when someone says they are born again. It is a state in which one lives once he has died to sin and lives to Christ. All Christians must be born again otherwise they are not Christians. That is a basic. You are trying to peg born again Christians into a hole and it is not a reality. Try to understand this time or atleast be less rude. "High control cult" wow. I am sure that you are mistaken. No man controls the mind of a Christian. We have been set free, indeed. Please control yourself this time my friend. I do remember how you love to attack those who love the Lord. Not this time, ok? dj

DJ

I still think that the communion, or lack of, rule is a no-brainer. Also, I agree with the 1914 stuff but I would try to remember the importance of metatron's advice. I will say a prayer that you will be effective and not tooo nervous! Love, dj

mouthy

Jeff to answer your question On the 3rd of May I am speaking in Tavistock. A womans group( church) on the 7th I am speaking at a public high school....I keep saying this is the last time I will do this. Then when i am asked again I think Oh well if it stops just one from getting trapped it is worth my while....

LittleToe

I'd like to throw in my support for what DJ said to og.
It was due to becoming born again that I came to question the JW's.
At the time I was happily minding my own business as a dogmatic JW Elder, on the rise to becoming a C.O..
I'm now happy to attend nigh on any denomination, but usually attend my local "Free Church of Scotland". Becoming born again was an event, not a religion (John.3:3-8).

I've spoken scores of times to the kind of event that is being addressed here.

I tend to keep things very simple, and ask that they remember and show the love of Christ, in their dealings with JW's.
If they can focus on their personal experience of meeting with Christ, it has a powerful impact. It's kinda hard to argue with someones personal testimony, especially when the fundamentals of their conversion are warranted from scripture. This also causes confusion, in the JW mind, as they can see the sincerity, and recognise some of the terms used.
Keeping the conversation Christ-centered, and not allowing it to be steered away by the JW, is the best advice.
Warn them about being sucked down the rabbit hole of discussing the Trinity, but sticking to the deity of Christ, may also help.
They really do need to be warned about having their conversation dragged into JW Lion's den topics. They need to be firm on keeping the subject singular, to be effective, and Christ is the best subject.

You could add that they have the benefit of JW's believing in the inerrancy of scripture, Genesis to Revelation. Also that JW's believe Jesus to be the Christ / Messiah.
Helping them to see what JW's hold in common (I know it's little) with mainstream Christianity, may help them to adopt a caring attitude for the misguided.
It's pretty straighforward to then show where the JW's definitions of common theological words, falls short.

You also want to stress very strongly the danger of them having their faith subverted by what appears to be strong reasoned arguments supported by scripture.

To recap: Jesus, Personal Testimony, Jesus, common ground, Jesus, firmly stick to a topic, oh, and did I mention Jesus?
The reason? Born again Christians know heaps about Jesus, from personal experience. Jw's do not.

Fe2O3Girl

Is the purpose of your talk to safeguard this group from being sucked in by the JWs, or to show them how to help JWs?

Knowledge is power, and it won't take you long to give them all the info they need to stop them ever being dragged in.

I am still of the opinion that it is not possible to "reason" a person out of the JWs if they are a diehard dub. The programming throws up too many psychological barriers. However, I will concur with LittleToe on this one:

I tend to keep things very simple, and ask that they remember and show the love of Christ, in their dealings with JW's.

This cannot be emphasised enough. If there was one thing that proved to me that I was right and they were wrong when I was a good little dub knocking on the doors of Pentecostal and born again Christians in Northwest England, it was the rude and obnoxious way they treated me. It was probably nerves and fear of this weird cult member pestering their household, but it did nothing to show that they were in Christ's love and I wasn't.

In the end, it was kind people who weren't religious at all that got me out.

searchfothetruth

Born-againer,

I think it's called the Liverpool Christian Fellowship. My uncles name is Tony Callaghan and he runs a football team in the Christian league, have you heard of/ or know him?

Excellant points from everyone, thanks, (especially Jeff, thanks)

There is just so much to cram in. He asked if I had enough info for a full hour, and I said that an hour wouldn't be enough.

Just from the posts above, can you all give me a list of how you would prioritise the subject.

It will be interesting to see how we all think on the important subjects.

Thanks

born againer

Search, I haven't heard of him, but my Dad thinks he has. I'm a little familiar with the Liverpool Christian Fellowship, anyway. Its a good idea of your Uncle's!

I think that personal testimony should come high up the list, along with the lack of forgiveness shown by da-ing, the false prophecies, and the fact that they don't take communion when it clearly says that we should in the Bible.

Not sure about them, but they seem to be what everyone else on this topic is bringing up. I think that the child abuse and the UN scandal will only cause arguments, which aren't constructive. It would depend on how an individual approached it.

JeffT

jgnat: I agree with you, love and kindness can be a potent weapon. Taking over a plate of cookies when they're down would be a lot more than they will get from fellow witnesses.

og: Born again Christians are not necessarily in a high control group. I attend an independent church where everybody would consider themsleves "born again" but it is most definitely not a high control group. People are very much free to do and believe as they are led by their own consciences. We are also free to come and go as we like, even going to other churchs.

We've been going there for fifteen years, there are 4,000 members and there has been only one time when an announcement was made that an individual was no longer a member of the church. That was a case where the man's conduct was so despicable it was equivalent to warning the church about a pedophile (he's was another issue, but suffice to say he was a snake).

searchfothetruth

Little Toe.

Can you just explain what you mean when you say that born again christians have more experience of christ than JW's.

My uncle has said that there are those in his church with the gift of prophecying and those that speak in tongues.

As you probably know, since leaving the witnesses I have lost my interest in joining another religion and am still very nervous about setting foot inside another church.

I wanted to keep the talk factual, I didn't really want to go through my personal experiences as I don't think they would be interested in a sob story, I wanted to let them see the erroneous teachings of the society, mainly from the society's own words.

I will warn them of the arguements that the witnesses use but mainly how to answer the witnesses at the door.

Thanks again everyone

Ive been asked to do a talk for a born-again church...

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