Masks Are Coming Off

by minimus 137 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Disillusioned JW

  Anony Mous, you asked good questions to me when you said "why should people who are immune have to continue to wear masks? Don’t you believe that the vaccines work?"

  In making my earlier post about masks I hadn't given thought specifically to whether ones who were fully vaccinated should wear masks. Based upon what I have read and heard on the news the various Covid-19 vaccines work to various degrees of effectiveness. Furthermore there are new strains/variants of the virus and for some of those the vaccines don't seem to provide nearly as much protection. One concern that I have is that if someone in a store or on public transportation is not wearing a mask, what proof do I and others have that the person is vaccinated and/or immune to Covid-19. Unless the person provides documentation of having been vaccinated how can any of us really know the person is vaccinated and/or immune?
  

  It seems to me that the guidance stated at https://www.nbcnews.com/shopping/wellness/cdc-guidelines-face-masks-n1260911 is worth considering.

  Regarding whether the current Covid-19 vaccines are safe, I haven't yet made up my mind on that subject. I lean towards thinking they are safe, due to the medical community saying they are safe, but in researching how they are made I notice that most of them are mRNA type of vaccines. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html says the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines cause the human body cells to make a harmless protein piece and later to display it on the surface of the cells. The article says "Our immune systems recognize that the protein doesn’t belong there and begin building an immune response and making antibodies, like what happens in natural infection against COVID-19." My worry is that the immune systems of some of those receiving the vaccine might do more than attack the Covid-19 protein pieces, namely that they might also attack all of the body cells of some people which have the protein pieces on their surfaces - causing an autoimmune disease.

  The article says "mRNA vaccines have been held to the same rigorous safety and effectiveness standards [332 KB, 24 pages]external icon as all other types of vaccines in the United States. The only COVID-19 vaccines the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) will make available for use in the United States (by approval or emergency use authorization) are those that meet these standards." But, I am still concerned.
• 

  jhine

  My ( simple ) understanding is that vaccines don't stop anyone from getting covid . You just don't get it so badly that you would have to be hospitalized or even die . Like the common cold it will be around for ever , most likely.

  So people who have been vaccinated can still get it and pass it on to someone who hasn't yet been vaccinated.

  Masks don't protect the wearer , they make a , yes not fully efficient , barrier to what we breathe out .

  So until as many people as possible have been immunised the current safety measures are still necessary.

  Jan
• 

  FedUpJW

  what proof do I and others have that the person is vaccinated and/or immune to Covid-19. Unless the person provides documentation of having been vaccinated how can any of us really know the person is vaccinated and/or immune?

  Perhaps a tattoo on their forehead of some symbol? Or perhaps a number?
  
• 

  LoveUniHateExams

  @jhine - yes, I agree with your recent comment.

  Typically, modern medicine cannot eradicate viruses. Since the mid 80s scientists have been working on a cure for HIV but the HIV virus is still around, infecting new people every year.

  Off the top of my head, the only virus that's been successfully eradicated is smallpox.

  COVID will likely be with us for many years to come. We must learn how to live with it, it's as simple as that.
  

  I would argue that social rules should be relaxed three weeks after all the most vulnerable people have been vaccinated. Of course, people can still choose to wear face masks if they wish but this shouldn't be mandatory, IMO.
  
• 

  Justmemorph

  Holy s**t say it aint so! The vaccine has untended side effects that may be lethal??? The most tested vaccine in history??? No! Cant be.

  https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-europe-countries-suspend-blood-clot-worries/
  
• 

  minimus

  I wouldn’t want the Astra vac.
• 

  LoveUniHateExams

  @Justmemorph - there are no causal links between blood clots and the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine.

  The EU countries which are suspending this vaccine are likely doing this to distract from their own pathetic vaccine efforts.
  

  Correlation doesn't equal causation.
  
• 

  Justmemorph

  I agree on correlation/causation , however to suggest this is to distract from other vaccine efforts is laughable.
• 

  Simon

  Yeah, the AtraZeneca vaccine suspension reeks of politics more than science. The EU doesn't want to be seen to have been dependent on the UK.

  To have 30 people develop some symptom out of 17 million means that if anything the vaccine reduced the rate rather than increased it as you'd expect far more people to just develop it anyway out of that many.

  Personally, I like the look of the J&J vaccine simply because you only have to make one trip. Here in Canada it's completely fucked up and they are trying to cover their ineptitude by claiming that you don't need the 2nd dose of the 2-dose vaccines anyway, to stretch things out. Doesn't seem to be "follow the science" to not follow the damn label.

  Ultimately, they all reduce the probability that you will contract Covid and also reduce the symptoms of it if you do. So there is still value to social distancing and mask wearing even if you are vaccinated in order to reduce spread, especially while not everyone will have had the vaccine - it would be unfair for those who have benefitted from early vaccination to also then possibly put others at greater risk.
• 

  LoveUniHateExams

  however to suggest this is to distract from other vaccine efforts is laughable - have you been keeping up with comments made by senior EU members re COVID vaccination?

  Macron initially doubted Astra-Zeneca's effectiveness on over-65 year olds, at the same time as the EU was furious with the UK because we Brits had approved the vaccines and placed orders early, of huge amounts of doses of this very vaccine.

  Merkel then said she wouldn't take this jab because she's 66 - she claimed she was too old.

  And what do we see? We see a slow uptake of the vaccine across EU countries, coupled with the EU still deliberating about vaccine approvals and placing sufficient orders in sufficient time … whilst also using new EU legislation to block doses which were ordered by Australia.

  So, yeah, your comment is kinda right - the EU has been laughable.