Corporal punishment (page 5)

All sorts of "creative" punishments can often end up punishing others unintentionally. For EXAMPLE (substitute special trip being taken away, grounding where a parent/parents have to cancel a night out together to make sure jr minds his grounding. Etc, etc, etc...) , Jr misbehaves and is told, "you can't go out for ice cream with us today". This punished grandma because she doesn't get to share ice cream with jr, since, you know, consistency in punishment and all... When a short, swift spank or two to the bottom, gets jr's attention, brings him back around to behaving, and 10 minutes later, everyone is on their way to an ice cream, happy as pie. Done, over. Life moves forward. Lesson learned.

Fact is, as I've said already, life isn't all soft falls on pillows. It can be unforgiving and painful. A few spankings when they're young, along with proper teaching and enlightenment, will result in teenagers who dont need to be spanked, or disciplined much, for that matter. I never did, once they hit puberty.

I am in agreement with you all, in reference to taking the time to teach why something is wrong, and why we don't do it. What happens if we do, is the utmost importance, but frankly, I dont believe any if you have had a precocious boy, insist on running out into the street, even after you've told him not to and explained why its dangerous and unacceptable.

Yes, I learned from spankings. No, I dont resent my parents for it. I was taught lessons in other ways, but the appropriate spanking drove home a point, in a quick manner, when needed. If I insist on doing something I'm told not to, there's gonna be a consequence that hurts. I don't want that. Guess I'll stop. Sure I was mad at my father for a few minutes, maybe. But we moved on. He didn't dwell on it and neither did I. I'm not a stunted human being because of it, and I don't whine about my childhood and let it hold me back, or blame my parents for my problems. Yes my parents weren't perfect, and neither was my childhood. But neither is life. Get over it and move on.

Frankly cofty, your solutions are virtuistic, but not always realistic. I agree, if all you do is yell and spank, its lazy parenting. But spanking is not lazy when it is necessary, and accompanied by conversation outlining the wrong and the correct action.

I'm still waiting to hear, those of you who are condemning spanking, were you spanked as a child; severity if the spanking. Was it beating? And how many children have you raised, without spanking, to adulthood?

For the record, I'm not saying its impossible. Again, different personalities and demeanors in children and parents, create different dynamics and scenarios. Maybe you're the perfect parent with an almost perfect child. Congratulations. Trust me, we aren't all like that...

And since we're on the subject of discipline, what about sending them to bed without supper? Not letting them use hot water when they shower? Washing their mouth out with soap? Biting a toddler who's going through a biting faze? Making a kid who is caught smoking, chain smoke cigarettes til they get sick? (For the record, these are all disciplines I never used, because i don't find them acceptable, but were either used on me, or friends I know)

Obviously, discipline is a sticky subject. Ultimately I would never tolerate a parent being physically abusive to a child, but if your kid is in my presence, I expect him or her to behave. Whatever you gotta do to make it happen, do it. The world will be a better place for it, especially when they become adults.

Incognigo Montoya

Absolutely agree, LoveUni

Incognigo Montoya

Olig, I don't agree that; spanking may help build pain tolerance, is a good reason to spank. I simply feel that nature teaches with pain. Touch a hot stove, you're gonna get burned. Insist on teasing a dog, you're gonna get bit, stick a fork in a socket, you're gonna get electrocuted.

So, do I let them do those things and learn the lesson the hard way? If I do, we risk, long term pain, infection, trauma, even death.

I can sit them down and have a conversation about what will happen if they touch it, both physically, and disciplinary. Maybe they listen, learn, and never try again.

But what of the stubborn child who insists on doing it again? A smack to the hand associates pain to the action (let's not forget that if I weren't there, and he succeeded in touching, he'd be in pain anyway) My pain is much more temporary, though the lesson learned will perhaps last, but with far less side effects than the actual consequences, if they were to succeed in the follow through.

Maybe they do it again, anyway. And perhaps the hard way is the only way they learn. Well, at least I tried a more benign way. But that's realistic discipline.

cofty

if your kid is in my presence, I expect him or her to behave. Whatever you gotta do to make it happen, do it

Could not disagree more.

TD

I'm still waiting to hear, those of you who are condemning spanking, were you spanked as a child; severity if the spanking. Was it beating? And how many children have you raised, without spanking, to adulthood?

The prevailing wisdom in my parent's generation was that children were like spiriited colts in the sense that they needed to be subdued before they would obey. (Similar in some respects to the sentiment expressed by Olig in this thread)

Parents had considerable lattitude in this regard. My mother preferred a willow switch and my father preferred a belt. --Not what I would call "beatings" but both hurt, albeit in different ways.

In the short term, it was very effective. We feared our parents and rightly so.

In the long term, it was counterproductive in the extreme. I regularly fantasized about the day I would be bigger and stronger than my father. Since his generation regarded exercise as effeminate and mine was on the cusp of the bodybuilding craze, that day came much sooner than he expected.

All of us, (brothers, sisters & myself) moved out as soon as we turned eighteen. That was forty+ years ago.

Neither my wife (Whose parents were similar to my own) nor I practiced corporal punishment with our children. (Youngest is now thirty.) It was a lot of work, which further exposed the utter laziness of that generation's approach. But again, if you can't mentally outmaneuver a clever six-year-old without resorting to violence, you're not going to be much use when the child is sixteen and no longer trusts you.

Incognigo Montoya

Thank you for the response TD. I respect your view, though I obviously disagree. My experience says otherwise.

blondie

BTW, when certain European countries started making spanking children a crime, the WTS changed the wording in the WTS publications in their language.

Countries when spanking is illegal:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/12/health/spanking-laws-parenting-without-borders-intl/index.html

Some of the countries and territories that have bans are: Albania, Andorra, Argentina, Aruba, Austria, Benin, Bolivia, Brazil, Bulgaria, Cape Verde, Congo, Costa Rica, Croatia, Curaçao, Cyprus, Denmark, Estonia, Faroe Islands, Finland, Germany, Greece, Greenland, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Kenya, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Mongolia, Montenegro, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Paraguay, Peru, Pitcairn Islands, Poland, and Portugal.

The other countries and territories that have bans are: Moldova, Romania, San Marino, Slovenia, South Sudan, Spain, St. Maarten, Svalbard and Jan Mayen, Sweden, Macedonia, Togo, Tunisia, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uruguay, and Venezuela.

In the United States, corporal punishment is still lawful in the home in all states, and legal provisions against violence and abuse are not interpreted as prohibiting all corporal punishment, like spanking, according to the Global Initiative to End All Corporal Punishment of Children.

LoveUniHateExams

There are all sorts of punishments you can use - yes, that's true.

Denial of privileges - no TV, games, after-school sports etc. With little children being made to sit apart from the family for a while 'the naughty step' can be effective - all these examples you give are good. A short sharp smack with the open hand to the kid's hand, legs or bottom is understandable and ok under some circumstances, as long as it's not excessive.

In the UK it is illegal to smack using any implement or to use your hand in such a way as to leave a mark - this is good.

In Scotland the legal defence of 'reasonable chastisement' is set to be removed this year making smacking illegal - All smacking to be banned in Scotland? This is illiberal and ridiculous.

Corporal punishment

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