Can we support Russian government's ban?

by intropist 17 Replies latest jw friends

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  intropist

  

  Can we support Russian government's ban?

  글쓴이: 류비 / 시간: 목, 03/30/2017 - 14:48

  
  

  Hi,

  I want to leave my personal opinion on the matter of Russian government's banning on the activity of Jehovah's witnesses in their territory. I think it's more or less important because bearing a certain opinion is related with the quality of life. Yes, What you think is what you are. And because we, ex-Jehovah's witnesses are suffering from unrighteousness and injustice done by this bad organization. At any rate, I want to have right thinking.

  Can we support Russian government's ban?

  If this ban is not based on justice, as for the organization like JW, it might give them good motivation, the motivation to overcome worldly persecutions. Out of their hearts, will governing body really worry about the welfare of Russian Brothers and sisters? I guess those top international leaders will worry more about the assets like kingdom halls or bethel's real estates.

  According to Reuters, 3 points were picked by Russia for labeling Jehovah's witnesses as Extremists. it reads:Authorities have put several of its publications on a list of banned extremist literature, and prosecutors have long cast it as an organization that destroys families, fosters hatred and threatens lives.

  Yes They do! They are really bad.

  However, I have a guess that there is Russian Orthodox Church behind the scene. An article of BBC mentioned one quote from a Watchtower publication. The BBC article reads : One quotes the novelist Leo Tolstoy, describing the doctrine of the Russian Orthodox Church as superstition and sorcery. I guess this kind of viewpoints of JW might provoke the Russian church.

  But, This situation is not about religious judgment but legal one, judicial one. Our rightful judgment that JW.ORG should perish in this world is one thing, but judicially judging in that way is another. Law does not judge our thinking but our behavior.

  What is Russian interpreted definition of Extremist? Generally, terrorism, violent trouble making, for example, those of IS are regarded as basis of Extremists. This time, Russian authorities omit that aspect from their definition and they claim witnesses are Extremists because they have foster hatred toward other religions and they claim they are the only one true religion.

  Yes, Their claim is really absurd. But can we just illegalize it without its behavioral offenses? If we think of the freedom of press and thinking, it's really a different story.

  We ex-Jehovah's witnesses are suffering from that religion's evil policies. Some friends are not able to meet their families. Their calls are ignored, even textings. What inhumane, illogical, unjust are the organization's policies only to protect it and grow it. However, if Russian government is using that kind of inhumane, illogical, unjust policies, can we support it?

  No matter how much we hated the JW organization, we could not support Nazi's persecution toward it.

  As for this time's Russian case, I think we can't support its ban.
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  ScenicViewer

  No matter how much we hated the JW organization, we could not support Nazi's persecution toward it.

  As for this time's Russian case, I think we can't support its ban.

  There is, of course, a big difference between the Nazi imprisonment and killing of Jehovah's Witnesses and the Russian ban on the religion for extremist reasons.

  I go back and forth with myself as to whether I support the ban or not, but there is one single JW practice that makes me lean toward supporting it - no blood transfusions, which results in loss of human life.

  If the ban goes through presumably Hospital Liaison Committees (HLCs) will not be allowed to exist and therefore cannot interfere in medical cases, which will result in the saving of life.

  The breaking up of families as a result of DF'ing and shunning is big with me too, but this may continue, business as usual, since JWs will continue to exist as an underground religion in Russia. However the practice may be curtailed a little bit.

  As to the human rights issue of banning any religion, it's true that Russia isn't exactly a world leader in supporting human rights, but neither are JWs who insist on freedom of religion for themselves but refuse to allow the same freedom to those who choose to leave the JW religion.

  If JWs receive the same treatment from the Russian government that they have dished out to their followers for many decades, then as far as I'm concerned it's just a matter of fighting fire with fire, and I will feel that they have met their match in the Russian government.

  In the end, if the ban goes through, I can support it mainly because it will interfere with Watchtower's no-blood policy, at least a little, and result in the saving of life over time.
  
  
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  smiddy

  Jehovahs Witnesses are just one of many religious sects that are considered extreme some worse than others.

  Apparently their are numerous sects springing up with doomsday in mind and the Govt. is reigning in these cults.

  But the bottom line is they ,JW`s are just one of many that come under this proposed ban because of their published material that they distribute.

  WT propanda would have you believe they are the only ones targeted which is not true .

  Why should that surprise us ?
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  freddo

  Thought provoking post, thanks.

  I have considered both sides of this and believe that if the Russian (or any other) government had the time and inclination then they should not ban JW's but tie them up tight financially as in no tax breaks and no siphoning money to New York and expose their wackier beliefs in Pravda or whatever has superceded it for ridicule. Maybe tighten legislation on blood and penalise them for shunning - but how I just don't know.

  IMO the only government that can affect JW's is the US government but sadly there are proportionately more religious nutters with their own agendas in the US government than in any other "western" power.

  If Trump and Co. attacked WT's property and money and grilled the GB on the stand like Australia managed to do with Jacko at the ARC then the GB would soon dance to their merry tune. Trouble is JW's are insignificant to most governments. No votes, no use, no help, no power, no nothing really.
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  Drearyweather

  I consider ISIS as extremist not just because of the propaganda that they publish, but because of the atrocities that they are committing. Even though there cant be a perfect figure, at least we have an estimate of the number of civilians that are killed by the ISIS, and video footages of the demolition of the antique architecture of Iraq.

  Its true that JW's do publish information that can be considered as extremist. In such cases, banning the publications is necessary. However, since Russia is banning the JW's altogether, does Russia have absolute data on the following issues:

  1. Blood ban: How many witnesses in Russia have died due to refusal of blood transfusion?

  2. Breaking families: How many people in Russia have been affected by the disfellowshipping offence? If not an actual figure, has Russia documented the stories of such people and investigated all the cases where accusations were made of families getting torn apart due to JW teachings?

  3. Fostering hatred: Has Russia tried to document cases where this has happened? Have they provided video footage of the meetings or assemblies to the public to show that hatred is propagated from the stage?

  Russia needs to make the world aware with proper facts and cases.

  If the publication is extremist, publish the quotes to the public and ban the publication.

  If people are extremist, document the cases to the public and then ban them.
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  intropist

  Why not (Acts 5:38~39)?

  I'm going to do as it said :

  38 So under the present circumstances, I say to you, do not meddle with these men, but let them alone. For if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown; 39 but if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them.+
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  Jehalapeno

  You don't have to ban an entire religion to punish harmful behavior.

  Shunning, although extremely mentally anguishing for many of us, should never be banned or outlawed. I pick and choose who I associate with. And if I decide I can't stand someone, I shun them. Cut them off completely. I have done that with certain toxic family members myself, regardless of religion.

  You can make a law that does not allow people to refuse lifesaving medical treatment (blood transfusions) for religious reasons. This is borderline fascist, in my opinion, but it is preferable to banning an entire belief system from worshipping in freedom.

  You can make a law that requires all child abuse allegations, regardless of the number of witnesses, to be reported to police for investigation. And if people violate that law, they can serve Jail time. Again, banning an entire belief system is overkill for this issue.

  If you feel proselytizing is extremism, you can ban certain activities. No door to door canvassing. No street witnessing. Enforce the law with stiff fines. JWs aren't rich and they'll soon find other ways to get their time in other than public evangelizing.

  again, you don't ban an entire belief system. You legislate consequences for the harmful conduct.

  It's really quite simple: if you support the ban, you are LITERALLY supporting fascism. You escaped a fascist authoritarian organization only to support fascist authoritarian governmental actions.
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  Caedes

  I would never support a ban on people being free to choose their own religion, it doesn't matter if the religion is wrong or harmful, adults have the right to choose for themselves what they do. I would support anything that prevents people forcing their religious beliefs on others and that would include children.
  
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  freemindfade

  Can we support the Russian ban?

  No

  Two wrongs don't make a right. Trying to ban corruption doesn't work anyway, you need to educate and expose it.

  Freedom of speech might be our most valuable right. It should not be taken away from anyone. There are other ways to fight them.
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  tor1500

  Hi,

  I would but can't even talk to my own gov't in the USA...can't sign any petitions that may better anyone's life...can't be on the board of directors for where you live....can't call your local assemblyman, must I go on....they say, remain neutral...so I'm giving them what they asked for...I'm remaining neutral...because my conscience tells me so....

  JW's or any other religion has the right to speak but not the right to shove their opinions down ones throat...I said this in another topic, JW's and Russians have many things in common....but one word they both share is...FREEDOM...

  Maybe some of the brave x-witnesses could send letters to Russia regarding the ARC....just to shed some light on the matter, since the org. don't want to mention it....this might be the chance....

  I think if a person wants to send a letter it's up to them....but we don't know the real story behind this....it may just to keep us busy since nothing has happened monumental in 100 yrs...

  The org. just built a new facility...go get the JW's in Russia, protect them...if you really fear for them....take them out of harms way, if that's what they need...lip service...NO, this time the GB's should put their money where their mouth is...they won't do nothing but just have this story in one of our Year Books...but won't lift a finger....

  But, JW's have been shunning people all their lives, it's now their turn....it's just they don't see it that way...

  Tor