upcoming elder visit, need help

by greven 39 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  greven

  Hi all,

  I have been inactive for quite a while since I started to do research on the society. The elders knew about this and even encouraged it, until I started to ask the wrong type of questions, mostly of the kind: "can you provide verifyable evidence for that?". Anyway, they wanted to meet to discuss my current position towards the religion and towards the bible. Both I consider hoghwash (but i aint gonna say that ofcourse). I think I will agree to such a meeting to apear to be willing, eventhough I know it is part of the witchhunt.

  My goal is to prevent DA/DF. Because I am making progress freeing my family from their grasp by gradualy letting them in on my findings. Getting my ass DA'ed or DF'ed now will torpedo my cunning plan.

  My primary defence: As I am still investigating I can't give any conclusions half-way. For now, I assume this religion true, until evidence demonstrates this assumption to be false. Therefore, I still consider myself to be a JW(**Gag, cough**), though an inactive one.

  Do you have any other defensive strategies to offer? What are the common pitfalls? How should I answer the prime questions?

  Any help is welcome!

  Greven
• 

  qwerty

  Greven,

  Try only answering a question without giving a direct answer. Only answer questions with a question..........

  For example if they ask......"do you view yourself still as a JW"?

  Answer........ "Well how do you view me"?

  Or they could ask........."Do you still believe that the Gov body of JW's is the faithfull and descreet slave"?

  Answer............"Well I've been a JW for ........years so I must believe they know how to explain the scriptures. You say that I am spiritualy weak, have you ever had a point in your life when you doubted"?

  Some people would be better at attempting this than others! As you can see I am not a master!!!!!!!

  But I hope this helps,

  Qwerty.
• 

  Maverick

  Dear Greven: I used the Baptism Nullification letter and they took no action. I am not DF'd or DA'd. I am able to talk to anyone who will talk to me. Many do treat me as an apostate but some do not. And they have no fear of official reprisals. It is hardly a perfect solution and I am sure in time the Society will figure some way around it. For now I recommend you make excuses to not meet them. Unless you are a very fast thinker, they will corner you and piss you off and get you to show your true feelings. Or they will "kill you with kindness" and get you to recant. Choose your battles on your own terms and your own ground. Maverick
• 

  greven

  Very helpfull advise so far.

  Maverick, the baptismnullification letter is helpful when taking that final step. Submitting such a letter right now would mean I have reached a conclusion of a sort. What I really want is linger in a doubting phase. No JW is ever DF'ed or DA'ed for doubting, rather it is the conclusion and spreading of that doubt that gets people booted so to speak.

  Choose your battles on your own terms and your own ground.

  That's very good advise! That is also the reason why I prepare. I am not a very fast thinker, but now when a question smells fishy. When I am in doubt about the answer, I simply state i would like to consider the question better, or ask them to explain giving me time to think.

  qwerty, asking questions is my specialty. Usually when i get people to explain their question they trip themselves up.

  Thanx guys!

  Keep it coming!

  Greven
• 

  Max Divergent

  Hi - By the sound of it you've got some verbal juggling to do if you want to avoid DF.

  The question they asked me was something like: 'In your opinion, do the Witnesses present the truth, but that truth isn't for you; or, do you believe the Witnesses do not present the truth' (or words to that effect). 'Yes' to either = probable Judicial Committee, 'No' to both = more hassles as you’re not acting in accord with your words by being inactive.

  I took an approach that suited me, but may not be right for others... I replied that I'd given that some thought and checked the dictionary definition for heresy and that seemed to describe the first condition they described. I'd also checked the dictionary definition for apostasy, and that seemed to describe the second condition.

  I said that I didn't think that either condition described my position, but that I was acutely aware that my current thoughts were probably wrong and that I couldn't and wouldn't presume to trouble others with it. 'At the end of the day, I'm not sure where I'm at in regard those very serious positions you describe, but I remain absolutely dedicated to truth and goodness. I just don't know about those sorts of really big questions at the moment' (and what's wrong with any of that from the JW point of view?).

  They left spitting that I was creating smokescreens to hide behind. True, of course. They don’t like people just walking away on their own terms. One of the guys was a buddy and when he called for a (further) follow-up call, I said that they were always welcome for a cup of coffee but I had nothing religious to discuss with anyone. They never came for another official visit.

  That worked for me, but may not for others. I just suggest that you consider it from their point of view before they come and before you speak. Give them uncertainty and humility, but avoid any definite positions on anything, especially anything they suggest even if it sounds like it’s an ok thing to agree with – they’ve practiced this and have a clearly thought out strategy to find out apostates.

  Easy answers to any question include: “I don’t know’; ‘I’m not sure’; ‘I’m sure I’m wrong’; ‘I’d have to do more research/prayer/meditation on that’; ‘I don’t understand what it’d mean to say Yes or No to that very deep question’; ‘I don’t remember’; ‘Not in my presence’...

  Good luck, with clear thought and good preperation it's possible to get through.

  Cheers, Max
• 

  blondie

  Good response, Max.

  I saved it to my "Answers for the Elders" file.

  Blondie
• 

  Shakita

  Greven:

  My advice is to not meet with the elders. Just by asking questions, you become suspect. If you don't want to make waves, I say leave well enough alone. For now.

  My husband and I have been inactive for over a year now. We still have family members in, too. Because they choose to stay JW's, we will try to avoid meeting with any elders for now. As much as I would like to confront them with the many questions that I have, to remain silent is the best option for the present time. To meet with the elders is to play by their rules, we are done playing by their rules. If and when we meet with them, it will be on our terms. This is where we stand now, we will see what the future holds.

  You said that you assume that the JW's are still the right religion. I suggest that you do more research. You are supporting an organization that has destroyed many families and has seen "new light" only when it is for the benefit of the organization.

  I am not sure if this was any help. There is no right answer for anybody when it comes to this stuff. Everyone has to do what they feel is right in their heart. In the end, we have to live with ourselves and our decisions. Take care.

  Mrs. Shakita
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  Mulan

  Max gave some really good advice. I would add to it, that you can lie.

  I used the Baptism Nullification letter and they took no action. I am not DF'd or DA'd.

  You haven't heard the last of that one, Maverick. Just wait.........they'll get you yet.

  Mrs. Shakita suggested you not meet with them. If you refuse to meet with them, they might DA you, in absentia. I know people this happened to. One of them kept saying it wasn't a good time, and didn't return their phone calls, and they made the announcement. Refusing to meet raises a "red flag". Try to avoid it, but don't refuse. I know a young man who said he had been very ill (true), then had work problems, and said he just emotionally couldn't deal with meetings and people at this time. That was a LONG time ago, and they haven't called on him again.
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  JT

  you made 2 points

  1. you realize that wt ain't what it is cracked up to be and

  2. you are not READY YET to deal with all the judical stuff

  my advice is simple-- NO WORD SHUFFLING-- just direct LIES-- SMILE

  IF THEY ask you is this the truth -- SAY YES ,

  IF THEY ASK YOU do you believe in the FDS --say yes of course of

  ANY THING THEY ASK YOU tell them what they want to hear, the reason is simple - they have lied to you from the day you became involved THEY ARE NOT ENTITLE TO KNOW WHAT YOU THINK AND FEel

  KEEP in my you are going to be questioned by 2 guys who are Cheese Cracker Men- one works at Piggley Wiggley the other works at the Quickie Mart- now please tell my why anyone should feel they need to tell the truth to such clowns- if in 6 months you want to tell them to kiss the "Whiteness or Blackness on your A$$" then you can, but if you want to give yourself space and breathing room

  "dick" with them like they have with you, If someone stopped you on the street and asked for your SSN, Mother Maiden name and your checking account number would you feel you would need to give them that information

  it is important for folks leaving to first decide what and how they want to leave,

  if you want to leave in a Blaze then turn in your letter, go to the Hall seat on the front row seat and Fart during the meeting, and it will be a blast, but if you don't want to do that AT THIS TIME, THEN you must approach it from a different angle,

  ones approach depends ENTIRELY on what one wants to happen to them at that time

  if you want to lay low for awhile then take the steps neccesary to do that and the reason is simple

  if one decides to go for the gold ring- xeroxing all the flip flops writing the 25 page book report, then there is not turning back

  i have stated so many times here about observing folks leaving who are NOT PREPARED FOR THE BACKLASH

  they go off on the elders, their families and then the jw mindset kicks in SHUN SHUN SHUN, and the cut of of family and friends takes place, they have not built up any new cliente OF friends and now they are cutoff feeling left completely in the dark

  they come here to the net and ask WHAT DO I DO NOW, well it is too late, this is why the tool the NET "THANG" is so important in my veiw, for here one can learn HOW, WHAT ,WHEN AND SO FORTH to say and who to say it to-

  here on this site are folks who have paved the way for others, why not learn from them

  i have never been a believer in EXP IS THE BEST TEACHER, to me i realize that i can learn so much from the exp of others ,esp in the issue of leaving wt

  i would like to commend you for taking the time to let us help you get your thoughts together before you meet with the CHEESE CRACKER MEN

  YOU WILL BE JUST FINE
• 

  Shakita

  Just as an add-on to Mulan's comment...

  I agree with Mulan's comment about making excuses to not meet with the elders. My comment was not to confront them with a refusal to meet, just to make up your mind not to put yourself into that sort of stalemate. That is what it will be. Remember, they are ALWAYS right. You will not win any argument you might have with them. They KNOW that GOD is on their side. Even is their answer is a non-answer, it is the RIGHT answer. How do you reason with that? You can't. That is why unless you wish to be DA'd or DF'd by them for questioning anything the society says, you can try to avoid this by dodging them. In the end, the elders will do what they want.

  I know personally people who have been left alone after the elders got tired of persuing them. It is possible to put off a meeting, if you choose to.

  Mrs. Shakita