The Ultimate Conversion

by Etude 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Etude
    Etude

    One thing that surprised me shortly after joining this site was the number of individuals who, after experiencing the deception of being a JW and the hypocrisy of the “TRUTH”, switched to being Catholic or “born-again” Evangelists. It seemed to me like jumping from the hot pan into the fire.

    I don’t want to piss anyone off for his or her choices. I feel everyone is free to believe what they may. In addition, I’ve always been an advocate for the apparently innate need of individuals (to one degree or another) to feel “spiritual” and to yearn for some of the things religion purports to offer (a sense of awe, inner peace, respect for morals, etc).

    So, when I say “jumping from the hot pan into the fire”, I mean that in the sense of going from one illogical set of ideas to another demonstrably illogical set of ideas. Perhaps it is because of my personal experience with both Catholicism and Protestantism that gives me little confidence in them as better alternatives to the JWs. Yes, the JW construct seems more devastating to individuals and families. But the other Xtian sects have the same or similar foundations for their beliefs and have a very rich history of deception, killings, money grubbing and contradictions in their tenets.

    I personally know some ex-Witnesses who are now devout Catholics. But besides my being born into it, judging from history, it’s obvious how fabricated that old religion is. Protestantism inherited most of the same tenets and ideas about God and Jesus and even liturgy from the Catholics. Some people just need a place to hang up their hat. Therefore, a label or religious identity provides that for them.

    For me, I think that given the manipulation of the “Scriptures”, first by the Hebrews (the O.T.) and later by the nouveau-Christians of the Roman Empire (the N.T.) puts into question many or most of the beliefs Christian sects hold. For some people who can “see through religion”, feeling religious (having the need to believe) leaves the fundamentals of God and Jesus standing but divorced from the traditions and rites of religion. But that is not more reassuring in my mind than swallowing the entire religious gamut. For me, believing has to be more profound. It has to be tenable in some explanatory and reproducible way. And so, what I have deemed the “ultimate conversion” is a total departure, not just from religion, but also from the idea that the concept of God is somehow sustainable let alone inevitable.

    The more I found out about the foundations of religion and belief in deities, the more “eroded” ideas about a Supreme Being became. I remember having a much extended conversation here with another member (for which I was praised due to my beyond-the-norm patience) a few years ago in which I feel I established to her that, no matter what she believed in and how fervently; she could not sustain it beyond herself, beyond her own brain. She could not teach it to me, point to it, give directions or demonstrate how to “receive Christ” or “heed the calling from the Lord”. However, I understood her need for devotion and her sense of dependence on believing that there must be a God.

    So, to everyone else who chooses to “believe” in a deity, go ahead if it makes you feel better. I guess that’s a good thing. But at least consider that it may be temporary. I remember being so sure I had finally found right religion in the JWs I could not imagine anything shaking my resolve. Man, I was so wrong!

    Etude.

  • waton
    waton

    etude, bien etudie' try deism. belief that the universe did not create itself, but looking at the works left behind teach us about the possible maker.

  • Etude
    Etude

    Thanks waton:

    As I mentioned before, we can believe deeply and in a great deal of things. But my idea of belief is not to contemplate what could be and only consider what can be known. Deism seems a contradiction to me because the very idea that God exists and just simply abandoned everything (especially us humans) seems to deny His very own existence. He offers not explanations and He doesn't indicate via His creation the reason for his indifference. I can "reason" the Universe just fine without attributing its existence to a Supreme Being.

    I also realize that there is much more we cannot know than we what we seek to find. But, in those cases, I'm perfectly willing to remain ignorant and say: "I just don't know." We do that in Science constantly.

    Etude.

  • waton
    waton

    He offers not explanations and He doesn't indicate via His creation the reason for his indifference

    How can you call the creator indifferent when he endowed us will all the tools to succeed.?

    Success is rewarded within the bounds set by the rights of the rest of creation. keep doing it in science, constantly.

  • Etude
    Etude

    Wanton: (I assume you're not yanking my chain) How can you assume He "endowed us with the tools to to succeed" when the world is replete with failures and enough misery to make Him go away? I can think of a lots of cases where the bounds of creation simply screwed people. It may be obvious to you but not to me. At least not based on any observable rationale. How do you demonstrate that?

    Etude.


  • Steel
    Steel

    I sometimes feel like Charlie Brown listening to his teacher listening to this constant variation of the same idea.

  • Etude
    Etude

    It is "the sigh within the sigh within the sigh", as the "reverend mother" would say.

    Etude.

  • waton
    waton

    Etude, my world view seems to be callous to you, but you and I, living today as the temporary carriers of life, passed along like a baton, in a billion year long line of survivors, would prove to correct? Of course there are the heartaches of those that did not make it, and if they did not, there is a reason, and hopefully not to be repeated again,

    sick example: guinea worm?

  • Etude
    Etude

    Wanton: I'm not callused to your views. I just think they're not sustainable, not enough for me to be convinced that deism has any value. It's a nice and reassuring construct. But I feel that believing just "because" has no value. For it to be otherwise, the arguments for it must be very solid. I know we can enter a discussion in which we attempt to support our own views, (you can try) but I've been there and done that. Still, my point of the post was to comment on the idea of switching to Catholisism or Evangelism after being a Witless. That will never make sense to me. At least they are happy.

    Etude.

  • waton
    waton

    the idea of switching to Catholisism or Evangelism after being a Witless. That will never make sense .

    agree, since most converts come out of those systems that they rejected, all based on the talking snake story.

    My belief in deism ( while I am currently under attack by pathogens that end most seniors lives) is the extraordinary build-in capacity of life to be ready to , evolve,exploit, adapt, succeed.

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