Christ and OT prophecy

by SwedishChef 38 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • SwedishChef
    SwedishChef

    Here is a list of 61 Prophecies in the Old Testament which Jesus fulfilled. There are in many cases other Scriptural references, but I don't have the will power to type them all up.

    Prophecies concerning His birth:
    1. Born of seed of woman:
    prophecy: Gen 3:15
    fulfilled: Gal 4:4

    2. Born of Virgin
    prophecy: Isaiah 7:14
    fulfilled: Matt 1:23

    3. Son of God
    prophecy: Ps 2:7
    fulfillment: Matt 3:17

    4. Seed of Abraham
    prophecy: Gen 22:18
    fulfilled: Matt 1:1

    5. Son of Isaac
    prophecy: Gen 21:12
    fulfilled: Lk 3:23,34

    6. Son of Jacob
    prophecy: Num 24:17
    fulfilled: Lk 3:23,34

    7. Tribe of Judah
    prophecy: Gen 49:10
    fufilled Lk 3:23,33

    8. Family Line of Jesse
    prophecy: 11:1
    fufilled Lk 3:23,32

    9. House of David
    prophecy: Jer 23:5
    fulfilled Lk 3:23,31

    10. Born at Bethlehem
    prophecy: Micah 5:2
    fulfilled Matt 2:1

    11. Presented with Gifts
    prophecy: Ps 72:10
    fulfilled: Matt 2:1,11

    12. Herod Kills Children
    prophecy Jer 31:15
    fulfilled: Matt 2:16

    Prophecies Concerning His Nature:
    13. His pre-existence
    prophecy: Miah 5:2
    fulfilled: Col 1:17

    14. He shall be called Lord
    prophecy: Ps 110:1
    fulfilled: Lk 2:11

    15. Shall be Immanuel (God with us)
    prophecy: Isaiah 7:14
    fulfilled: Matt 1:23

    16. Shall be a prophet
    prophecy: Deut 18:18
    fulfilled: Matt 21:11

    17. Priest
    prophecy: Ps. 110:4
    fulfilled: Heb 3:1

    18. Judge
    prophecy: Is 33:22
    fulfilled: John 5:30

    19. King
    prophecy: Ps 2:6
    fulfilled: Matt 27:37

    20. Special Anointing of Holy Spirit
    prophecy: Is 11:2
    fulfilled: Matt 3:16,17

    21. His zeal for God
    prophecy: Ps 69:9
    John 2:15,16

    Prophecies concerning His ministry
    22. Preceded by Messenger
    prophecy: Is 40:3
    fulfilled: Matt 33:1,2

    23. Ministry to begin in Galilee
    prophecy: Is 9:1
    fulfilled: Matt 4:12,13,17

    24. Ministry of Miracles
    prophecy: Is 35:5,6
    fulfilled Matt 9:35

    25. Teacher of parables
    prophecy: Ps 78:2
    fulfilled Matt 13:34

    26. He was to enter the temple
    prophecy Mal 3:1
    fulfilled Matt 13:34

    27 He was to enter Jerusalem on a donkey
    prophecy Zech 9:9
    fulfilled Lk 19:35-37

    28 "Stone of Stumbling" to the Jews
    prophecy: Ps 118:22
    fulfilled 1 Peter 2:7

    29 "Light" to the Gentiles
    prophecy Is 60:3
    fulfilled Acts 13:47,48

    Prophecies Concerning Events after His burial:
    30. Resurrection
    prophecy Ps 16:10
    fulfilled Acts 2:31

    31. Ascension
    prophecy Ps 68:18
    fulfilled Acts 1L9

    32. Seated at the right hand of God
    prophecy Ps 110:1
    fulfilled Heb 1:3

    Prophecies Fulfilled in one day:
    33 Betrayed by a Friend
    prophecy Ps 55:12-14
    fulfilled Matt 10:4

    34. Sold for 30 pieces of silver
    prophecy Zech 11:12
    fulfilled Matt 26:15

    35. Money to be thrown in God's house
    prophecy Zech 11:13
    fulfilled Matt 27:5

    36. Price given for potter's field
    prophecy Zech 11:13
    fulfilled Matt 27:7

    37 Forsaken by His diciples
    prophecy Zech 13:7
    fulfilled Mk 14:50

    38. Accused by False Witnesses
    prophecy Ps. 35:11
    fulfilled Matt 26:59,60

    39. Silent before accusers
    prophecy Is 53:7
    fulfilled Matt 27:26

    40 Wounded and Bruised
    prophecy Is 53:5
    fulfilled Matt 27:26

    41 Smitten and Spit Upon
    prophecy: Is 50:6
    fulfilled Matt 26:67

    42 Mocked
    prophecy Ps 22:7,8
    fulfilled Matt 27:29

    43 Fell under the cross
    prophecy Ps 109:24,25
    fulfilled John 19:17; Lk 23:26

    44 Hands and feet Pierced
    prophecy Ps 22:16
    fulfilled Lk 23:33

    45 Died with thieves
    prophecy Is 53L12
    fulfilled Matt 27:38

    46 Made intercession for his persecutors
    prophecy Is 53:12
    fulfilled Lk 23:34

    47 Rejected by His own people
    prophecy: Is 53:3
    fulfilled John 7:5,48

    48 Hated without a cause
    prophecy Ps 69:4
    fulfilled John 15:25

    49 Friends stood afar off
    prophecy Ps 38:11
    fulfilled Lk 23:49

    50 People shook their heads
    prophecy Ps 109:25
    fulfilled Matt 27:39

    51 Stared Upon
    prophecy Ps 22:17
    fulfilled Lk 23:25

    52 Garments parted and lots cast
    prophecy: PS 22:18
    fulfilled John 19:23,24

    53. To suffer thirst
    prophecy Ps 69:21
    fulfilled John 19:28

    54 Gall and vinegar offered to Him
    prophecy Ps 69:21
    fulfilled Matt 27:34

    55 His forsaken cry
    prophecy Ps 22:1
    fulfilled Matt 27:46

    56 Committed Himself to God
    prophecy Ps 31:5
    fulfilled Lk 23:46

    57 Bones not broken
    prophecy Ps 34:20
    fulfilled John 19:33

    58 Heartbroken
    prophecy: Ps 22:14
    fulfilled John 19:34

    59 He is Pierced
    prophecy Zech 1:10
    fulfilled John 19:34

    60 Darkness over the Land
    prophecy Amos 8:9
    fulfilled Mattt 27:45

    61 Buried in a rich Man's tomb
    prophecy Is 53:9
    fulfilled Matt 27:57-60

  • rem
    rem

    1. Born of seed of woman:
    prophecy: Gen 3:15
    fulfilled: Gal 4:4

    LOL - was he to be born of a man? Crazy fundies.

    2. Born of Virgin
    prophecy: Isaiah 7:14
    fulfilled: Matt 1:23

    Research the word translated Virgin in Isaiah. It means young woman and does not have the connotation of a Virgin. The writer of Matt made this error because he was working off of a poor septuagint translation.
    3. Son of God
    prophecy: Ps 2:7
    fulfillment: Matt 3:17

    There is no external evidence that Jesus was the son of God.
    4. Seed of Abraham
    prophecy: Gen 22:18
    fulfilled: Matt 1:1

    There are conflicting geneologies in the scriptures. Unfortunately none can be verified since the records have been destroyed. 5. Son of Isaac
    prophecy: Gen 21:12
    fulfilled: Lk 3:23,34

    This can not be verified since the official geneological records have been destroyed.
    6. Son of Jacob
    prophecy: Num 24:17
    fulfilled: Lk 3:23,34

    This can not be verified since the official geneological records have been destroyed.
    7. Tribe of Judah
    prophecy: Gen 49:10
    fufilled Lk 3:23,33

    This can not be verified since the official geneological records have been destroyed.

    8. Family Line of Jesse
    prophecy: 11:1
    fufilled Lk 3:23,32

    This can not be verified since the official geneological records have been destroyed.

    9. House of David
    prophecy: Jer 23:5
    fulfilled Lk 3:23,31

    This can not be verified since the official geneological records have been destroyed. 10. Born at Bethlehem
    prophecy: Micah 5:2
    fulfilled Matt 2:1

    This is not a Messianic Prophecy. The Bethlehem spoken about in Micah is a person, not a place.
    11. Presented with Gifts
    prophecy: Ps 72:10
    fulfilled: Matt 2:1,11

    This is not corroborated by any contemporaneous external evidence.
    12. Herod Kills Children
    prophecy Jer 31:15
    fulfilled: Matt 2:16

    This is not corroborated by any contemporaneous external evidence.
    Prophecies Concerning His Nature:
    13. His pre-existence
    prophecy: Miah 5:2
    fulfilled: Col 1:17

    This is not corroborated by any external evidence.
    14. He shall be called Lord
    prophecy: Ps 110:1
    fulfilled: Lk 2:11

    This is not a prophecy.
    15. Shall be Immanuel (God with us)
    prophecy: Isaiah 7:14
    fulfilled: Matt 1:23

    Jesus is not called Immanuel in the NT.

    16. Shall be a prophet
    prophecy: Deut 18:18
    fulfilled: Matt 21:11

    This is not a messianich prophecy.

    etc. etc. etc.

    Yawn... many of these have been dealt with before. All one needs to do is actually read the scriptures in question to see that they are not prophecies at all. Yet these prophecy lists continue to circulate even though they have absolutely no evidence to back them up.

    rem

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    rem said:

    Jesus is not called Immanuel in the NT.Yawn... many of these have been dealt with before. All one needs to do is actually read thescriptures in question to see that they are not prophecies at all. Yet these prophecy lists continue to circulate even though they have absolutely no evidence to back them up.

    rem

    Actually rem if you had "actually read that scriptures in question" that Swedish posted (Matthew 1:23) you would see that Jesus is called Immanuel (Emmanual KJV) in the NT.

    Edited by - hooberus on 20 January 2003 14:21:20

    Edited by - hooberus on 20 January 2003 14:32:15

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    A great book discussing the scriptural, and messianic evidence, as well as external evidence for the fullfillment of the above prophesies in Jesus Christ is "The Trinity: Evidence and Issues" by Dr, Robery Morrey

    He shows Old Testament passages were interpreted by the Jews as applying to the messiah before the New Testament was written. This shows that the passages were indeed messianic. He also gives external evidence for their fullfillment in Christ.

  • rem
    rem

    Hooberus,

    Read the scripture again:

    Matthew 1:21-23

    21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, [3] because he will save his people from their sins."
    22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23 "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" [4] --which means, "God with us."

    Jesus' name is not Immanuel. Nowhere is Jesus called Immanuel in the NT. Even the writer of Matthew is not calling Jesus Immanuel in this scripture. The writer of Matthew is just trying to force a prophecy in the story where there is none. He is trying to emphasize the point that Jesus was born of a virgin, not that he is called Immanuel. As was brought out before, even this interpretation is based on a flawed translation of the word 'virgin'. This has already been discussed in this thread:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=44171&site=3&page=2

    If you would like to go into any one of these alleged prophecies in detail then please provide your evidence and we can discuss it. Let's do one at a time, though.

    rem

  • heathen
    heathen

    Rem- In Matthew 1:23 the angel is translating it to mean "with us is God". though I don't get the point of this thread.

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    Other gods, who predated Jesus, also fulfill many of those prophecies.

    • Buddha
    • Marduk
    • Attis of Phrugia
    • Bacchus
    • Horus
    • Krishna
    • Mithra of Persia
    • Prometheus of Greece
  • rem
    rem

    Heathen,

    The point of this thread is discussing the alleged OT messianic prophecies. Swedish Chef listed many scriptures that he and many Christians believe are prophecies that are fulfilled in Jesus. I have demonstrated that most of these are not prophecies at all, and many that are prophecies are not referring to the messiah. The rest of the actual messianic prophecies cannot be corroborated by external evidence, so they are practically worthless.

    Regarding Isaiah 7:14 and its alleged fulfillment in Matthew 1:23:

    In Matthew 1:23 the angel is translating it to mean "with us is God".

    Where is the angel doing this in the scripture? The writer of Matthew is saying this as an aside. The angel never spoke those words. The angel only said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."

    You have also completely ignored the fact that Isaiah 7:14 is not talking about the future messiah at all. Here is the information again from this thread:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=44171&site=3&page=2

    Isaiah 7
    14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you [1] a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and [2] will call him Immanuel. [3]

    First of all, when was Jesus ever called Immanuel? Second, do some research on the word 'virgin' used here and you will find that it is a common mistranslation. The Hebrew word used was `almah. This word means young woman and does not have the connotation of a virgin. In fact, the way the word is used at Proverbs 30:19 strongly suggests a non-virgin. Here is a commentary on this scripture from Harper's Bible Dictionary (Paul J, Achtemeier, gen. ed., 1985), page 419:

    It is clear, however, that... Isaiah 7:14 did not speak of the miraculous birth of Jesus centuries later.... The sign of Immanuel offered by the prophet to Ahaz had to do with the imminent birth of a child, of a mother known to Ahaz and Isaiah, and signified God's presence with his people....

    Even if you could twist the meaning of the word 'almah to mean virgin (and you ignore the reference to 'Immanuel') and you can prove that this is, in fact, a messianic prophecy, there is no external evidence to verify it.

    Therefore Isaiah 7:14 is not a messianic prophecy and it was not fullfilled by Jesus as written in the scripture at Matthew 1:23. With research you will find that the rest of the alleged messianic prophecies are just as uninteresting.

    rem

  • SwedishChef
    SwedishChef

    Rem,

    You act as if these objections to the Bible are something new, but they have existed for centuries. Your not pointing out anything that hasn't already been heard, researched, and refuted. Church fathers, bible scholars, pastors, researchers, etc, that have read the Bible 30+ times through, generation after generation, have not found anything wrong with this Book. I am not intending on engaging myself in another series of debates with you. I will, however, address this one argument you have against it.

    You said:

    "Research the word translated Virgin in Isaiah. It means young woman and does not have the connotation of a Virgin. The writer of Matt made this error because he was working off of a poor Septuagint translation."

    "Behold, the Lord himself shall give you a sign," as the Bible says. What is this sign? Would he be "born of a virgin", or "born of a young woman?" Now which one sounds like a miraculous event to you? Which one sounds like a sign? There is nothing special about being born of a young maiden.

    In Hebrew the word "virgin" is denoted by two words:
    1. bethulah: the proper meaning denotes a virgin maiden (Gen 24:16; Lev 21:13; Deut. 22:14, 23,28; Judg 11:37; I Kin 1:2)
    2. almah (veiled): A young woman of marriageable age. This word is used in Isaiah 7:14. The Holy Spirit through Isaiah did not use bethulah, because both the ideas of virginity and marriageable age had to be combined in one word to meet the immediate historical situation and the prophetic aspect centering in a virgin-born Messiah.
    "Virgin" is denoted in Greek by the word parthenos: a virgin, marriageable maiden, or young married woman, pure virgin. When the translators of the Septuagint translated Isaiah 7:14 into Greek they used the Greek word parthenos. To them Isaiah 7:14 denoted that the Messiah would be born of a virgin.


    "Therefore the Lord himself shall give to you(pl) a sign:
    behold the ALMA will conceive and bear a son
    and she will call his name Immanuel."

    "You" in verse 14 is plural. By contrast King Achaz is singular you in verses 11 and 16-17. The sign to Achaz was that before a child should know how to choose good from bad, the siege would end (16-17). That child was not the newborn child of verse 14 but the child is Isaiah's son Sh'ar-Yashuv from Isaiah 7:3. The prophecy of Is. 7:14 is not addressed only to Achaz as is the rest of the prophecy.

    Matthew Henry comments on these verses as such:

    "...the Lord himself shall give a sign. How great soever your distress and danger, of you the Messiah is to be born, and you cannot be destroyed while that blessing is in you. It shall be brought to pass in a glorious manner; and the strongest consolations in time of trouble are derived from Christ, our relation to him, our interest in him, our expectations of him and from him. He would grow up like other children, by the use of the diet of those countries; but he would, unlike other children, uniformly refuse the evil and choose the good. And although his birth would be by the power of the Holy Ghost, yet he should not be fed with angels' food. Then follows a sign of the speedy destruction of the princes, now a terror to Judah. "Before this child," so it may be read; "this child which I have now in my arms," (Shear-jashub, the prophet's own son, ver. 3,) shall be three or four years older, these enemies' forces shall be forsaken of both their kings. The prophecy is so solemn, the sign is so marked, as given by God himself after Ahaz rejected the offer, that it must have raised hopes far beyond what the present occasion suggested. And, if the prospect of the coming of the Divine Saviour was a never-failing support to the hopes of ancient believers, what cause have we to be thankful that the Word was made flesh! May we trust in and love Him, and copy his example."

  • rem
    rem

    Swedish Chef,

    You act as if these objections to the Bible are something new, but they have existed for centuries.

    I never said any such thing. The scriptures are quite clear, so I would expect that these objections should be centuries old.

    not pointing out anything that hasn't already been heard, researched, and refuted.

    There is nothing to refute. By reading the original scriptures in context there is no messianic prophecy. Only people who wish to fool themselves force the scriptures to say something they do not. You still have not provided any evidence that Isaiah 7:14 is a messianich prophecy.

    Church fathers, bible scholars, pastors, researchers, etc, that have read the Bible 30+ times through, generation after generation, have not found anything wrong with this Book

    That is interesting because with just a cursory reading one can find many glaring problems. Perhaps these church fathers, bible scholars, pastors, and researchers are blinded by their belief?

    "Behold, the Lord himself shall give you a sign," as the Bible says. What is this sign? Would he be "born of a virgin", or "born of a young woman?" Now which one sounds like a miraculous event to you? Which one sounds like a sign? There is nothing special about being born of a young maiden.

    It doesn't matter which one sounds better because it has been shown that Isaiah 7:14 is not talking about the messiah at all. Even if the scripture was talking about Jesus, your argument is extremely weak at best. We'll deal with your argument about Isaiah 7:14 in a bit, but first your treatment of the Hebrew language:

    In Hebrew the word "virgin" is denoted by two words:
    1. bethulah: the proper meaning denotes a virgin maiden (Gen 24:16; Lev 21:13; Deut. 22:14, 23,28; Judg 11:37; I Kin 1:2)
    2. almah (veiled): A young woman of marriageable age. This word is used in Isaiah 7:14. The Holy Spirit through Isaiah did not use bethulah, because both the ideas of virginity and marriageable age had to be combined in one word to meet the immediate historical situation and the prophetic aspect centering in a virgin-born Messiah.

    Many Christian apologists would have us believe that almah can also mean virgin but they are deluding themselves. The word almah means 'young woman' or 'maiden'. Obviously a young woman or a maiden can also be a virgin, but this is not this is not necessarily implied by the word almah. The word bethulah can also apply to a woman of marriageable age, so there would be no reason not to use bethulah if virginity was a necessary component of the prophecy. The burden of proof is on the apologists to prove that almah necessarily denotes a virgin and that that is the correct rendering for Isaiah 7:14. They can not do this.

    "Therefore the Lord himself shall give to you(pl) a sign:
    behold the ALMA will conceive and bear a son
    and she will call his name Immanuel."

    "You" in verse 14 is plural. By contrast King Achaz is singular you in verses 11 and 16-17. The sign to Achaz was that before a child should know how to choose good from bad, the siege would end (16-17). That child was not the newborn child of verse 14 but the child is Isaiah's son Sh'ar-Yashuv from Isaiah 7:3. The prophecy of Is. 7:14 is not addressed only to Achaz as is the rest of the prophecy.

    Lots of grasping at straws here. Nothing about the word 'you' being plural implies that the scripture has a greater anti-typical fulfillment regarding the coming messiah. This is the exact same thing the WT used to do - always a minor and a major fulfillment of prophecy. Freddy would be proud!

    But let's say for a moment that your anti-typical fulfillment theory is correct. What are we left with? We are left with a prophecy that says the messiah will be born to a young woman and his name will be Immanuel. There really isn't much special about being born of a young woman, and Jesus' name certainly wasn't Immanuel. So the 'prophecy' is pretty ridiculous in any light.

    People will still continue to believe it is a prophecy, though, just as the followers of Nostrodomus and believers in the Bible Code continue to reverse engineer prophecies out of thin air.

    rem

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