Is Disagreement REALLY Fanning A Flame?

minimus

I won't specify a particular subject, but it seems that when someone throws mud at another, there are 2 options. Either accept it or reject it. If you or others defend a position, especially after an attack, that's "fanning the flames". What are you supposed to do when somebody tries to accuse or insinuate falsely? Stay there and get beat up? I think we all have the right to defend ourselves when under attack. On this board at times, if a person disagrees with the majority view, they are called jerks, Watchtower defenders, trolls and other words that are not "very nice". If a popular person or concept is embraced, you better accept it or you'll be villified. To all those that blame the Watchtower for everything bad that happens, let's look at ourselves to make sure that we don't become just like that of which we complain about.

freedom96

There really is no reason that we can't agree to disagree on subjects here. Other than that, lets have fun, and maybe learn something along the way.

We can always learn from other peoples viewpoints.

Amazing

I am glad you posted this topic. Discussion, debate, and disagreement are fine in my book ... and I think healthy for ex-JWs because we could not as easily engage in such as JWs ... the problem is when the other person fails to get our point, totally misunderstands, misreads language ... or engages in personal attack because they have no sound arguments ... then it gets ugly ... then it looses productivity ... yet, initial passion is fine and even heated debate can be good ... as long as we can be adults and not hate one another ... and not take it personal ... and stick to the topic ... then its okay.

That is why I still deeply regret the events of last December through March ... where I got into the flame with Amnesian, Julie, and Tina ... I was not wrong on my points ... I did miss some of their valid points ... and in an effort to prove myself right, I eventually lost two online friends or at least good fellow posters, and lost the opportunity to really know Amnesian ... sometimes, even if one is right, the price of proof is not worth the net result ... and looking back ... having to do it all over again ... I would have listened more and talked less. Maybe someday I can reconcile with them.

In the meantime ... I hope to learn from that. In the long run, humanity is slow to learn these things ... it takes generations of evolved education and good parenting to work out erroneous ways ... but then again, we still seem to screw up.

PS: By talking about being right, I do not mean to say I was right about everything, for clearly I was not. Amnesian made good points about JW Elder attitudes being carried forward to non-JW life ... and I have learned recently how this is more true than I thought ... Julie was correct about the need to move on ... and though I fought her tooth and nail, she had a point ... Tina ... it was not her points, but the fact that she was hurt ... and I was reacting like a lawyer, and not a friend ... I did not act like an understanding ex-JWs ... and in this, of all people, I failed Tina the most.

Edited by - Amazing on 28 October 2002 21:49:18

Edited by - Amazing on 28 October 2002 22:36:0

minimus

You're a good man,Jim.

Beck_Melbourne

I think it depends on how you say it. You can disagree with a bit of class, you don't have to resort to name calling and insults to disagree. On the other hand you can disagree while frothing at the mouth and using some colourful descriptive words. What you say and how you say it can sometimes determine the reaction of the recipient.

If the person who attacks you is notorious for this type of behaviour, then I believe walking away is the best way to deal with them. They don't usually have a point to make other then inticing you into battle...if you follow their accusations they are usually a string of misquotes or assumptions. You won't find reason where reason doesn't live.

Stay there and get beat up?

You won't get beat up if you don't stick around.

~Beck~ flamers can kiss my ass goodbye class

Mulan

I was wanting to post a similar thread. Can we still be friends, if I disagree with you? I hope so, but am not sure all will agree with me.

You have made some really good posts, minimus.

SEAKEN2001

I suppose it's a matter of perspective. For some, if you disagree you are "flaming" them. But, for most of us, we see that as an unreasonable position and do not feel it is fanning a flame when someone sharply disagrees with us. It also is a matter of maturity. The novice debator is often feeling personally attacked and is trying to protect themselves and flails with all their appendages in fear. As they grow up they learn, hopefully, to discern the value of opposition and start to recognize the arguments and dodge the ones that can be ignored and address squarely those that need addressing, no longer in fear, but with conviction and a reasonable mind, willing to adjust to new information as it becomes known to them. The adult, or mature, debator will not take offense at disagreement or the immature attacks of the novice. They will absorb the flame of the fool and help them along the path to maturity, if they are willing.

Sean

Grunt

Good post. I encountered this in a discussion of evolution. I don't think cursing and name-calling ever proves anyone's point. It is human to respond to insults in kind. I usually delete my responses after typing them and before posting them, but haven't always.
I haven't been on the board much lately but still consider this site a real asset and the closest thing I have to a church. That may sound funny but it is true. I feel a kinship (regardless of your present beliefs) with anyone who ever fell for the "Paradise Earth" and other lies of this cult.
I also think that what we say on this board does have an effect on a lot of fence-sitters, on a lot of people who are still being lied too and tricked by people they trust so much they will stab their mother in the back for them. I want to help them face the facts. I have learned all that I know about the organization I once revered here and on sites like this. Even after I left the cult known as Jehovah's Witnesses, way before the internet, I had thought it filled with sincere men honestly trying to serve Jehovah. Crisis of Conscience, H20 and this board helped me more than I can tell you to see the honest facts. The knowledge cost me family members, my daughter still shuns me, but I prefer truth over lies.
We need to show respect for one another, just as if we were talking face to face. We need to always be honest with one another. I respect and trust a lot of people who have posted and still post on this board. Courtesy and empathy for people in general is a good idea, for people who have shared a common ideal and have had idealistic dreams shattered in a similar fashion, have lost loved ones for standing up for their beliefs, they are a must. We have a common past, and many of us have a common foe. The liars in Brooklyn who claim to be co-mediators with Christ, who claim they will rule the earth, and who tell our loved ones they can't live there unless they follow the yellow footsteps they paint even if they go backwards or in circles, they are that foe.

Grunt

Big Tex

I agree. It is not so much the fact that someone disagrees, but the manner (and how stridently) in which they voice their disagreement. I know when I first started coming to this board, I mistakenly got in a heated disagreement with someone, but I didn't like how I felt afterward. I don't like giving someone else the power and ability to control how I feel. It is necessary to stand up and defend your position, but if the other person degenerates into profanity and/or name calling then for all intents and purposes the discussion has ended. I also think there is something to be said for carrying a discussion on too long. After a while, the same things are said over and over and over . . .

patio34

Good grief, if you can't have an honest disagreement, what would this be like? What would life be like? There would be no forward movement in human life!

On the other hand, when tempers flare and insults fly, then it's not disagreement, but hostility. Another subject altogether.

Pat

Is Disagreement REALLY Fanning A Flame?

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