Top 10 points proving JW belief is false.

by mamashel 24 Replies latest jw friends

  • mamashel
    mamashel

    Thanks so far everyone. This is really good. My very first thing i was going to share with him was the 607 and 1914 things. He and I have both been out and inactive for about 8 months now. I think he is just thinking about everything that has been going on in our family, and of course those old thoughts of leaving the org is why they are happening. But I am being very gentle and slow about it. He is the one who asked me about COC. So I am going to do as jriz said and highlight some of the information that I think will be helpful and go from there. I dont want it to turn into a debate or an argument though. That doesnt solve anything with him.

    Keep the info coming though. I am writing it all down.

    Thanks

    Shel

  • kelsey007
    kelsey007

    1. No reasonable, believable explanaition presented by the WT for Jesus failure to use the name Jehovah- the name they claim as so important to use in referring to god.

    2. Fact that the entire foundation of the WT for over 100 years has been the importance of dates (that have all been failed dates) in spite of the fact that Jesus is quoted as saying that NO MAN knows the day nor the hour NEITHER does the son.

    3. The WT misleading statements to the rankand file. (i.e. the reason that was given for putting the magazine and publications placementson donation only status.

    4. The missapplication of scripture such as Ez 34: 1- 5. Though they boast of being god's modern day nation of isreal- the shephards of god's people they fail to apply such scriptures to themselves. The scriptures that they so freely apply to "christendom" were used in the bible- not against "pagan" nations but against "god's people".

    5.No sound, solid scriptural basis for a "governing body" type of arrangement.

    6. The "Reasoning" book defines apostacy as an "abandoning or deserting the true worship and service of god, actually a rebellion against Jehovah God....Others claim to believe the bible but reject Jehovah's organization". Their definition here defies the bible. The scripural basis that they use here is based (numbers 16) on the story of Korah in standing up against Moses and Aaron. If this example is to be followed through then even Jesus and all his followers could be termed "apostates".

    7. The WT emphasizes the importance of an earthly organization and the importance of being a member of said organization. If their claims are true, given that the WT is just over 100 years old, what of all the billions that lived on earth for over 2000 years prior to the founding of the WT and after Jesus death?

    8. No sound scriptural basis for "judicial committees". Judges and such were part of the nation of Isreal. Jesus taught a much different approach- not to judge. No such committees are mentioned in reference to the early christian congragations.

    9. The very name of the WT (Watchtower Bible and Tract Society) defines what the organization is about. They publish books and magazines. In the early christian congregation there was no central location or world headquarters. Their focus has been the distribution of such liturature.

    10. Their application of "bible principle" is fluid. In Mexico the "brothers" were allowed to abtain political party cards while in other countries "brothers" endured prison, death, rape and such because the WT refused to allow those brothers ot accept such political party cards.

    Though on the surface many of thier basic doctrines may seem well grounded in the bible and are appealing to ones senses thier belief that only they own "truth" and that truth can only be found in the WT has placed them into the "cult" realm. Jesus never said that you would know his people by the doctrine they held or what they believed or the organization they belonged to. Jesus said that you would know his people by the love they held. When asked what one must do to gain eternal life Jesus never referred to an earthly organization or a doctrine. He spoke of a way of life. This way of life is motivated by the heart. Though knowledge can be gained from many sources no man or organization holds the patent on truth. Truth belongs to god. When the Isrealites as a nation turned from "true" worship many in that nation chose to follow the apostate course of the nation in spite of what they had known was right and wrong. It seems certain that the likes of Ezekial were considered apostate by the leaders of Isreal. Just as Isreal developed an attitude of importance- feeling that the nation was more important than the god that they claimed to worship- so has the WT. The words of dedication used at baptisms clearly show this. In recent years the phrase has been changed to provide for an oath to the earhtly organization. Clearly this is in defiance to the power of the god they claim to follow.

  • LFitzwater
    LFitzwater

    The Blood Issue! It is simple and VERY obvious. Go to the blod sights and show how many hundreds of changes they have made. You can even get articles off the AMA web site. My point was if they are going to say NO BLOOD, then they should mean NO blood. If they had the courage of their convictions they would not be allowing so many blood products to be used.

    And of course my point was always that they did not have blood transfusions in the bible times so we can't use the bible to decide they are a sin. The idea that blood is sacred is because it represents SACRED life. Would not God want the symbol to be used to save the actual sacred life?

    Just a thought.

    Laurie Fitzwater

  • gumby
    gumby

    Mamashel,

    I have the COC book.

    Save your breath and just let him read the book.I have never seen anyone WORD things better than Ray can. This book....all by itself.....is all it took for many of us to see the WT for what it is.

    Arguments can and will occur when you discuss things. You can't ARGUE with a book .Try it...it works. Let him just read the book and don't say anything unless he asks.

  • elihab50
    elihab50

    If he wants to see everything in the Bible, ask him where the Bible talks about the Bible and that everything must be in it.

  • Buster
    Buster

    I will agree with some previous posters - that arguing doctrine is a waste of time. As long as a witness is in their scripture-snippet quoting mode, you get anywhere.

    I also agree with the recomendations that a great place to start is with CofC. But if there is one place to target, it is where he explains how juvenile Witnesses are in their understanding of the bible. Yes they can quote any number of snippets, Watchtower and Bible - some in, some out fo context. But I have never heard a Witness that could discuss Paul's sense of community, or why the Apostle was writing this particular letter. That is where one can get a sense of context, and where one will lose the urge to adhere to an organization's interpretation of Book-this, Verse-that.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    I must be different to some people. Instances of lack of love and Organisational errors , I would have put down to human failing . For me It was reasoning on several key issues that made me realise that the WT was just another Human organisation.

    i) The time of the end has been in force for 88 years! If Armageddon is due , how long are we going to keep waiting?

    2) Does everyone out there deserve to die because they fail to recognise the WTS? Are our corpses fit only to be spread as manure on the ground? . No way ! Our Father is not that sort of a God.

    3) The Chronology that is used to calculate the date 1914 is totally off the wall. C of C is very good about that . I loved the bit when he was compiling the "Aid Book" , tried hard to justify it to himself and had to write it anyway.

    4) The blood issue does not make sense any more. The "New light" has muddied the waters so much that the clear principle is lost . Check out the ajwrb.com website.

    5) The maths that say that ALL the 1st century Christians , plus all the remnant of 19th/20th century haveto be covered by 144,000 - is not credible . Over 90,000 partook in 1925.

    6) Why should people having the misfortune to be around at Armagedon die horribly with no hope of a ressurection - but the previous generations all come back for a second chance?

    7) Talking of generations, the revised view of the "Generation" of Matt 24 34 never made sense.

    8) The current paedophile problems expose moral shortcomings on a scale that I could never have imagined.

    9) The U N involvement

    10) The unfolding involvement of the WTS and Rand Cam/ Regi Corp , involved in the development of millitary equipment - which is totally against everything that we ever stood for.

    Ten points to nail them with.

  • Buster
    Buster

    I'm feelin' agreeable today.

    I like the list above - one in particular: the one referring to the math for the remnant. I like it because it is one of the more absurd man-made doctrines - AND it is their basis of their claim to authority and power.

    But I would like to add: Back in the late 70's, there were somewhere in the 10,000 range that partook at the memorial. They were old then! How many of those have survived to today? Maybe half? quarter?

    Today, somewhere around 8,000 partake at the memorial. If my sense of the numbers works, in the past 25 years or so, they would have needed 'replacements' (remember that concept? replacements for some annointed that fall away? after all, annointed, but still human). Not only would they have needed replacements, they would have needed at least 3000 to 5000 replacements to have 8,000 still on this side of the sod.

    Folks, that means that of the 10,000 around 25 years ago 5,000 to 7,000 have likely died, 3000 to 5000 would have had to fall away and be replaced by today's partakers.

    This is a fundamental tenent of who the leadership claims to be - and it is easy math.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    There are so many things I could post here, I'm trying to think of only the most important.

    First, ask your husband to find ONE Verse in the entire Bible that says Jesus is Michael. See if he can find one.

    Also, after you tell him about the Watchtower's FALSE Prophecies of Armageddon coming in 1914, 1918, 1925, World War II, 1975, and Before the Generation of 1914 Ended, then show him the following Bible Scriptures:

    Deuteronomy 18:20: But the prophet, who shall speak a word presumptuously in My Name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who shall speak in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.
    Deuteronomy 18:21: If you say in your heart, How shall we know the word which Jehovah has not spoken?
    Deuteronomy 18:22: when a prophet speaks in the Name of Jehovah, if the thing doesn't follow, nor happen, that is the thing which Jehovah has not spoken: the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you shall not be afraid of him.

    Here Links to Web Pages where you can see (and Print Out if you want) the Watchtower's Quotes showing their different False Prophecies:

    Armageddon was supposed to come in 1914: http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/1914.htm

    Armageddon was supposed to come in 1918: http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/1918.htm

    Armageddon was supposed to come in 1925: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=37072&site=3

    Armageddon was supposed to come in 1975: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=36961&site=3

    Armageddon was supposed to come BEFORE the Generation of 1914 Died Out: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=37040&site=3

    Also, in case your husband says that the Watchtower Society Leaders are not Prophets, check out this Web Page to see the Quotes where the Watchtower DOES claim to be Prophets of God: http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/prophet.htm

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Here are some more Links that you may find very helpful (all of these Web Pages feature Quotes from the Watchtower's own Publications):

    Here is a list comparing certain parts of the Bible with what the Watchtower Society says: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=36418&site=3

    Here is a list of Watchtower Quotes about Blood Transfusions: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=36891&site=3

    Here is a list of Watchtower Quotes about Organ Transplants and Vaccinations: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=36663&site=3

    Here is the Watchtower Society's Pedophile Policy, clearly explained: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=36778&site=3

    Here is a list of Watchtower Quotes about their Rape Policy: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=35408&site=3

    Here is a list of Watchtower Quotes about Disfellowshipping, Disassociation, and Shunning: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=35751&site=3

    Here is a list of Watchtower Quotes saying that it is a GOOD THING TO LIE: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=35689&site=3

    Here is a list of Watchtower Quotes about CHILDREN: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=35540&site=3

    Here is the Governing Body's Teaching on "Community BLOODGUILT": http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=35669&site=3

    Here is a list of Watchtower Quotes about Alternative Military Civilian Service: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=36520&site=3

    HERE IS A LINK TO SEE WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS JESUS CHRIST: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=36024&site=3

    HERE IS A LINK TO SEE WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS ABOUT THE TRUE GOSPEL (GOOD NEWS) OF SALVATION: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=36170&site=3

    HERE IS A LINK THAT SHOWS WHAT KIND OF FREEDOM TRUE CHRISTIANS ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=36171&site=3

    THIS IS A LINK THAT SHOWS OVER 150 QUESTIONS YOU SHOULD ASK YOUR HUSBAND (OR ANY JW): http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=37330&site=3

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