Girl dies for her beliefs

by terafera 31 Replies latest jw friends

  • czarofmischief
    czarofmischief

    6of9

    I work in a hospital. I take care of my people, but some die and some live. And that's the way it goes. All of us WILL die. Now, this girl had a set of beliefs that hurt nobody but herself - and she chose to live by them and to die by them. I respect that. Even if she was young, she was still old enough to make her own decision.

    I have to agree that tearing the two apart was pathetic, and that she was denied access to basic information that could have changed her viewpoint, but let's be reasonable. It is highly unlikely that she could have gotten blood without undergoing a HUGE spiritual / guilt complex over doing so. Our own escapes from the super-cult took long, often violent, changes in character, and that all requires TIME. Could an orthodox Jew suddenly be expected to eat pork, even if his life depended on it, without perhaps getting ill or undergoing a huge spiritual crisis? Probably not. Neither could Bethany have gotten blood, or even decided to do so, without undergoing a similar huge shift in her basic psychic foundation. And I don't know if she could have handled something like that at her stage of illness. To us, outside the organization, it is a hugely simple issue about whether or not to get blood. Why can't they see that, we scream, beating futilely on the walls of the super-cult. But inside, it is warm, safe, and suffocating. An act like a blood transfusion would have taken a toll on Bethany. Not to mention losing all of her friends, her mother, etc.

    Can we blame her, or call it pathetic, when someone chooses a death they view as noble over a complete social transformation?

    That's what I objected to. But apparently the word was applied to the situation as a whole, which is more than merely pathetic. It is a scandal before God.

    No, I'm not flippant - just very tired and older than my years.

    Anyway, if we believe in God, I'm sure Bethany is either in a better place or has one waiting for her.

    CZAR

  • Windchaser
    Windchaser

    ((((((((Czar)))))))) It is very sad, this whole situation, but you are right. She died happy thinking she was pleasing God.

  • Crazy151drinker
    Crazy151drinker

    Being and idiot doesnt make you brave. Shame shame shame

  • Derrick
    Derrick

    Dying as a martyr for the true God is good and noble.

    Regretfully, however, this means to risk making a mistake in doing something that Jehovah doesn't require you to do, that costs you your life.

    20 years ago I was struck by a car on my bicycle and was rendered unconcious. At the hospital I was given a waiver to sign before I passed into a coma. I was an minor teen and the same age as the girl in this article, and my mother opposed my Jehovah's Witness faith. However, she respected my conscience and allowed me to choose death over life in what I believed at the time was an act of ultimate faith in God.

    Based on what I knew then, I would sign that waiver again.

    Based on what I know now, ............................................. I sit here for several minutes after typing those last words and find it difficult to continue that I would NOT sign that waiver. What does this mean? I feel my Christian trained concience freed in the knowledge that God does NOT require such a sacrifice, anymore than God would NEVER require I jump from the upper-deck of a skyscraper to prove my love for Him! Then I cannot help but wonder why I paused? Perhaps, because I don't know for sure whether God would approve of a blood transfusion? Perhaps, because of my conditioning over the years and difficulty in shedding the massive guilt trip the Society and Governing Body have succeeded to lay squarely upon my shoulders over what amounts to a misinterpretation of Scripture?

    It is really unsettling to realize there is no noticeable difference between cults like the Branch Davidians or Jones and the "true faith"! What is even more troubling is that one day you could be convinced you are dying to remain faithful to God in a matter that the next day, after your death, turns out to be a total misunderstanding of Scripture!

    What to do? Refuse to die for any cause even if it is clearly good, out of fear that one of these days a more enlightened society will look back upon your sacrifice as misinformed folly?

    Should you die for issues like refusing blood because there's a possibility it might get later proven the Society was right all along? Should you live through a blood transfusion because there's a possibility it might get later proven beyond the shadow of reasonable doubt the Society was wrong in their blood interpretations?

    That is why I have come to believe that God accepts the sacrifice of anyone who dies for Him, even if God never wanted this sacrifice. If one truly believe that God created the universe and invented its laws, then one knows that God can make it right. Perhaps it will happen in the form of a short story I once read from a brother about a boy who died from refusing a blood transfusion awakening in his bed as if it were a bad dream. Disturbed by a future of dying young that he thought was just a dream although it seemed absolutely real, he considered it as God trying to tell him something. But what was God trying to tell him? Digging deeper into his Bible than ever before, he suddenly arrived at a startling conclusion. God didn't require this future sacrifice of him! He realized that blood was a symbol of life, and should be given freely to make it possible for others to live. A few years later, the boy was in the same accident that he dreamed about a few years earlier, as if it had already happened. But this time around, the boy's clean conscience before God allowed him to accept a transfusion, and live to glorify God through a life devoted to helping others.

    I have thought of this story time and again, and wonder if the girl who died for her beliefs will awaken in her bed, and her "bad dream" will trigger her to examine the Bible and reconsider how God views blood, and why the emphasis on blood as a symbol of life? I think back to when I signed that form, believing I would die and having full faith in the resurrection, and sometimes an eerie thought enters my mind. Suppose I never did regain consciousness? Suppose this is all a dream? I wonder if anyone reading this can relate to the feeling?

    Derrick

  • Iwasyoungonce
    Iwasyoungonce

    Czar I agree with you in principle.

    We all have a right to choose what someone does to us (medically) as an adult. But, as parents I have a responsiblity to do what is right for my children.

    She did not in a court of law have the ability to decide what was best for her. Her Father and Mother did.

    I think that if there is a division in what to do it is prudent to do what is best in the effort to preserve life.

    The church has no right to interfere in the medical desisions that parents make.

    They have less right to use coresion and pressure to force an outcome that they wish.

    I think that sooner than later the luck of the aggressors in this saga are going to go to far.

    They seem to think they are beyond reproach. Which is very wrong. They prey in private while they pray in public.

    The results will be their crumble.

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    czar,

    : I know that the blood thing is probably wrong, and she died for a false belief, but at least she thought she knew what she wanted. We should be so lucky.

    I know that the Jewish thing is probably wrong, and he died for a false belief, but at least he thought he knew what he wanted. We should be so lucky. - Adolf Hitler apologist using your own argument

    Idiot.

    Farkel

  • czarofmischief
    czarofmischief

    Ok, Farkel.

    Your sentences are incoherent, you stooped to name calling, and you compared me to Hitler. Who's the one acting like an idiot?

    You totally missed the point of my argument. What I am saying is that Bethany should have been, and was, allowed to make her own choice based on the information she had. I'm not defending her death, but rather her right to make a choice and not have it demeaned as "pathetic".

    The Jews had no choice under Hitler.

    Have another drink.

    CZAR

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    czar,

    : Your sentences are incoherent,

    Which sentences were incoherent? You made the accusation, you provide the proof. Well? Where IS it?

    : you stooped to name calling, and you compared me to Hitler. Who's the one acting like an idiot?

    You are wrong again. I never compared YOU to Hitler. I compared your argument to one that could equally be applied to Hitler. I did that to show you how specious your argument was.

    : You totally missed the point of my argument.

    Yeah. What was it?

    : What I am saying is that Bethany should have been, and was, allowed to make her own choice based on the information she had. I'm not defending her death, but rather her right to make a choice and not have it demeaned as "pathetic".

    See below.

    : The Jews had no choice under Hitler.

    Nonsense. The Jews had lots of choices. Einstein left Germany in 1933, for example. Bethany could have left the Cult before she died, too. She didn't and died. Too many Jews didn't and died.

    You didn't make any REAL argument. You just offered your opinion. Until you learn the difference, don't think you can play ball with me. I don't tolerate specious nonsense.

    Farkel

  • terafera
    terafera

    My term of 'pathetic' was that it is pathetic that someone gave up their life because a group of people told her that God would prefer that over trying to save her life. Maybe she died doing what she believed in..... I believe in alot of causes, but I'm not going to commit suicide over them. I believe that is what she did.....

    and whats so sad, is... growing up with kidney problems, I was always told I would need a transplant someday. My JW parents told the doctors this could only be done without blood ... many witnesses my whole life stabbed me with guilt.. hinting that I shouldnt take in an organ, that it would be better to die favorably in God's eyes. I went along with this thinking... I felt it might be okay to get a transplant, but under no circumstances would I ever take blood.

    After coming to this site and having my eyes opened over a year ago, I prayed heavily over this matter and poured over research. I read things I was never allowed (or would attempt) to understand. I made the decision to change my advanced directive and told my doctor a few months ago that I had a change of beliefs...that I no longer thought God wanted me to choose death over getting blood. My doctor smiled and breathed a sigh of relief. I could see he never agreed with me, but respected my prior beliefs.

    Anyway, I was called for a kidney tranplant on Aug. 23. I went under feeling totally right with God. I knew He wanted me to survive..that me being dead on a gurney was not his idea of worship. Thankfully, I didnt need blood...but I am glad that I went into surgery being well informed.

    I only wish she had.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    CZAR, it took me all of 24 hours of research and reading up on the blood issue to decide that I could never again consider myself a witness. (I was 36 years old at that point) It took alot to get me to a point that I would do that, but I'd say facing death, along with having your father (supposedly your spiritual "head" heretofore in your life) re-evaluate, should have done the trick for Bethany. It didn't, and it is sick and disgusting that she was so pathetically brainwashed.

    BTW, why would anyone believe that she died totally sure? She had to be questioning.

    As far as you're statement "Now, this girl had a set of beliefs that hurt nobody but herself -", that is just beyond the pale. I'm sure you can look at that and see how ridiculous it is.

    Perhaps working around death has perverted your vision. Or perhaps belief in an afterlife has perverted your vision. How sad if so, since you know nothing of an afterlife, you can only speculate. You do however, know alot about what a 17 year old girl can do with her life is she is allowed to live it.

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