Why did Jesus have to die?

by Crazyguy 33 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Magnum

  On the surface, the ransom thing sounds simple and seems to make sense. And since most JWs just go by the surface and don't dig deeper (and probably don't have the capacity to), they're satisfied with the JW ransom explanation - a perfect man sold mankind into slavery to sin and death, so it took another perfect man to buy mankind back from such a condition.

  I never understood why Adam's death didn't pay the price. He was the perfect man who sold mankind. He had sentence passed upon him and he died. Some astute JWs might argue that Adam died in the imperfect state, so his death couldn't redeem mankind. However, it seems to me that his death sentence was "signed" when he was in the perfect state.

  It's not as simple and straightforward as JWs make it out to be.

  purrpurr: I never really understood the Ransome thing, but also bringing Jesus back to live doesn't that cancel out his previous sacrifice??

  It seems to me that bringing him back to life would cancel the sacrifice. JWs would probably say that he sacrificed his perfect human life, never to take on human form again, but it's still not clear to me.
• 

  StrongHaiku

  If you can consider a disbelief in God, Jesus, etc. (as I do), here's another explanation that may pop up:

  You can look at the OT and pick out scriptures that make it seem like Jesus (The Messiah) was supposed to die as a ransom for all, etc. On the other hand, you can (as Jews do) look at the OT and pick out scriptures that make it seem like The Messiah was supposed to reestablish the nation of Israel, the temple, etc. Even the disciples (being Jewish) had this expectation. The earliest writings we have are at least 20 after his death so we don't have a truly contemporary record.
  

  So, here is something to consider, is it possible the idea of "the ransom" was "new light"? In other words, could it be that the original disciples assumed Jesus was the Messiah (as the Jews expected), became disappointed when he died, and developed the idea of the "ransom" to explain his death?

  Far fetched? We currently have the GB rewriting their history and beliefs as we speak. This is not the first or last religion to do so.
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  pepperheart

  God tried to help people with the laws of moses but people had got the wrong end of the stick by just keeping outward laws and rules and not being bothered what their hearts were like and did they love people.so god had to send jesus who spent ages telling people that having love in your heart towards yourself other people and god was the important thing.And also jesus took the "rap" for all our sin and shame so that if we were made clean by his blood we would be able to get to heaven
  
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  cofty

  And also jesus took the "rap" for all our sin and shame

  Speak for yourself.

  The idea of somebody being punished for another's crimes is repugnant.
• 

  punkofnice

  I haven't read any of the above comments yet. I rarely do.

  There is no argument.

  When you stand back and analyse the story it is just bizarre nonsense. More insane than any fairy story.
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  freemindfade

  To lurkers: Abrahamic religin is death obsessed. And jesus story (like it or not folks) is a story about HUMAN SACRAFICE. Plain and simple. Your Christian religion revolves around the human sacrafice of Jesus according to your book. YHWH accepts human sacrafice.

  But the story of "jesus", virgin birth, death, resurecton, and more is just a retelling of older pagan stories. Do some research kids and wake up. Points like the one made in this post should stimulate your rational mind or engage CD. Try to stimulate and go further.

  Also couldn't he has just let herod kill the baby jesus. Voila! Done
• 

  punkofnice

  fmfade - Also couldn't he has just let herod kill the baby jesus. Voila! Done

  Absolutely.

  A god that has to do something so barbaric and convouted as only accept a sacrifice as recompense...then do NOTHING about it is unhealthy. Surely god could have thought of a better way and get the whole thing sorted without bloodshed and without putting humankind through overlapping generations of pain.

  I conclude that god is either a total knobhead or non existant.
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  WTWizard

  All part of the grandest scam of all times. In order to indebt us, joke-hova lied and proclaimed that we are all inherent sinners. Next, in order for this bogus "sin" to be lifted, someone would need to live as a perfect human and be sacrificed. What this does is creates a huge debt burden on us, and we are supposed to emulate this perfect slave to benefit from this sacrifice and to "repay" the debt. Hence, this fictitious character would need to be sacrificed.
  
• 

  Heaven

  Mr. Deity and 'the Boy' kinda sum it up here:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mII6-IyaT3o
  
• 

  Vidiot

  Crazyguy - "Why did Jesus have to die?"

  Typically, "messiahs" (in Judaic lore) didn't die, so his followers were thrown for a real loop when it happened.

  Concluding that he "had" to as was basically a retcon to keep the moment heading forward.