It's been awhile, PLEASE HELP

by apostate man 26 Replies latest jw friends

  • apostate man
    apostate man

    It's been about 6 months since my last post. What a world of shit I am in now.

    Some of you may recall a thread I started on my problems with my wife found here at http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=24462&site=3 .

    A little update first. My wife never stopped her drinking or her lying. Her family has never stopped pressuring her into being a JW again. This has caused so many problems. On August 5th, she finally moved out. Unfortunately for me, she did this while I was at work and she took the kids and all of their belongings with her. I filed for divorce. I tried to stop her before she took the kids but it was too late. Now I barely see them and they, I feel, are in a dangerous environment.

    Her JW parents have been acting any thing but Christian. I can't believe the levels they have stooped to. I just received my wifes response through the court yesterday, all 82 pages worth. Yes, 82 pages. Her mom and dad both make declarations that are out of this world. I have never seen so many lies told at one time. There is also slander towards my family which they will be sued for.

    I sent an email to my wife explaining a couple of various things on Sept. 12th. I also had put in there that the JW cult has been the backbone for many of our problems. With all the research I have done on this organization I came up with only one conclusion: That this is a Satanic Cult. Her and her family have put that email into declarations and say that the JW religion is anything but Satanic. Her mother states that "Most EDUCATED people know that we are not "Satanic"...".

    Anyways, I am not sure what I am after here, maybe just a little support. I do have one question though, How many of you X-JW's, that haven't turned athiest, believe that this religion may have a Satanic demeanor? Think about the ties to the pyramids, free masons, subliminal images in their pictures and the blood sacrifices(you know what I mean on this). Any and all help would be appreciated. I have found out how venomous a JW can truly be and it really sickens me.

  • Carmel
    Carmel

    It depends my friend, on how you define "satanic". I certainly believe they are driven by ego, pride and status not to mention materialism and as such their "lower nature" rules over their "higher nature". As to demons, and a personified evil guy with god-like powers, sorry, don't buy it and don't think that is the source of the JW mindset and behavior.

    Personally, I'd stay away from that label when going to court. It simply makes you look as stupid in the eyes of the judge as your ex and here minions.

    Good luck anyway.

    caveman

  • YoursChelbie
    YoursChelbie

    Hello,

    Here's my opinion; in light of your situation, there's a likelihood that the children could become a pawn in a power struggle between you and your wife. However.....

    If you stick to the facts and how they apply to your particular circumstances, you may gain a more just and fair outcome for everyone involved. For a certainty, making generalizations about a religion will probably not result in any legal advantage for you.

    A competent family lawyer will definately be your best ally.

    Good luck!

    YC

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    I truly feel for you Brother. I do not feel that the JWs are any more demonic than the Mormons, Catholics etc.,.

    You need legal representation to fight this with a proper response to the court. The angle of health/safety issues for your children may work since the Jws refuse blood treatment and there has been many court cases that back you up.

    How old are the children? If they are very young, the court will go with the wife for primary care.

  • roybatty
    roybatty

    As someone who went through a divorce (ex-wife is die hard JW) I would suggest getting the best lawyer you can afford. It will make a HUGE difference. Also, don't fight in court about the JW stuff. The court doesn't give a rat's ass what religion your wife belongs to. However, I would strongly suggest that you spell everything out in your divorce settlement. Not just money and visitation but also the blood issue and others. I'd also have a statement in there saying that neither of you can make a d isparaging remark about the other to the kids. This can help curtail some of the JW teachings about apostates.

    Just my two cents.

  • xenawarrior
    xenawarrior

    I'm sorry that you have to deal with all of this crap!!

    Get out a notebook and start documenting EVERYTHING. It might sound tedious or petty but it is invaluable later on when there is a problem and you try recalling events and who said what and what the circumstances were etc. Unfortunately, you are now at war. And you are up against a ruthless opponent. From what I can gather, your wife is a shoe-in as a JW so they don't need to concentrate on keeping her but they will concentrate on making your children good dubs for the next generation. The fact that, in their eyes, you may be an obstacle to that will only result in the re-doubling of their efforts. And they'll do it all costs.

    Do whatever you can to establish visitation with your children. You are their father and you have rights. And set it up with a court order specifying times that are yours. She will then not be able to change things at her whim. Don't let them put something in there about visitation such as "reasonable visitation upon reasonable notice" because then what is "reasonable" will be up to her discretion and from the sounds of it she WILL mess with that. You'll only end up in court again later to change that to keep her from playing games. Work out a schedule that you are able to keep up with and be specific about it "apostateman will have visitation on these days and these hours of the week" etc. And once that has been established, stick to it come hell or high water on your part and keep track of that as well. If there is a party or something in your life you'd like to participate in and it means changing your scheduled visitation with them, don't do it.

    You want to establish in reality that you are very involved in their lives. Attend as many of their school functions as you are able. Volunteer for school activities as a "parent supervisor" Call the school and request a copy of everything relating to your children that is sent to their mother. Arrange for your own parent/teacher conferences with your kids' teachers. You don't have to wait for the courts to decide anything for much of that to be put into place and the schools are accustomed to it. But you have to make the request. There isn't anything she can do to stop you from being involved in this way and if she tries to object it will only serve to show her true motives in the end. And it's win-win because you get to spend more time involved in your children's lives. (With all of this I'm assuming that they are enrolled in public school- and not home schooled- if they are- that may be another area to fight in the divorce proceedings)

    The other thing I would suggest is to keep a close eye on your children whenever you are with them. How do they seem? Are they happy and well adjusted or do they seem troubled? Your soon-to-be-ex in-laws have, by your own words, stooped to slandering your family on paper, it will not be beneath them then to slander you to your own children. Watch for signs of this and document everything on this as well. Later if there is a need to elicit the assistance of services designed to protect children, your documentation will be invaluable.

    Her JW parents have been acting any thing but Christian. I can't believe the levels they have stooped to. I just received my wifes response through the court yesterday, all 82 pages worth. Yes, 82 pages. Her mom and dad both make declarations that are out of this world. I have never seen so many lies told at one time. There is also slander towards my family which they will be sued for.
    I sent an email to my wife explaining a couple of various things on Sept. 12th. I also had put in there that the JW cult has been the backbone for many of our problems. With all the research I have done on this organization I came up with only one conclusion: That this is a Satanic Cult. Her and her family have put that email into declarations and say that the JW religion is anything but Satanic. Her mother states that "Most EDUCATED people know that we are not "Satanic"...".

    If you have filed for divorce, you may not want to be in contact with your wife through any other means than through your attorney. Too much can be twisted and skewed. And if you establish this even by putting it in writing to her through your attorney, and then stick to it (other than contact regarding the children) then later if she decides to fabricate something, she won't have much credibility with the judge.

    I know that this stuff all makes you angry and rightfully so. Ignore what her parents declarations are-I can imagine the judge will.

    You will not convince your wife of anything regarding the JW religion. Stop trying. They are lost to it. Focusing on that will only serve to irritate you further and if they were going to agree with you they already would. Hard to let go perhaps but you have bigger fish to fry- protecting your children and ensuring an involved relationship with them. Try to detach from the rest and concentrate on what you need to to to make that happen.

    Be prepared for anything. Smear campaigns are already in full swing. Take the high road and don't participate in it. I've got some links for you about that and as soon as I can locate them again, I'll repost.

    All the best to you - good luck with all of this.

    xenawarrior

  • Krazylady
    Krazylady

    In my personal opinion, you are right, it is a Satanic cult. BUT...it will not serve you well to use such opinions in any court. The question in the court will not be about religion, good or bad, but about the best place for your children to reside. If you start talking about Satanic cults, or bashing her religion in any way, you will come off looking like a lunatic to the judge (who may be a free mason himself) as he is bound by law to uphold her right to freedom of religion. Get the best lawyer money can buy, and keep your cool.

    I know all about the lies they will tell a court of law. When I read a transcript of my parents divorce and custody hearings, I was sickened by the lies my father told the court to get custody of me. That was when I lost all respect for him. He didn't trust his god enough to tell the truth and let the chips fall. I was eight years old when my father got custody of me, and I was 15 when I found out how he did it. I promptly left his house and moved in with my mother. The kids will come around, as long as you don't give in to the temptation to lose your cool. It may take time, but I believe it was Confusious who said, "A lie has short legs. The truth will outrun a lie."

    Best of luck to you, and keep us posted. Krazylady

  • Mimilly
    Mimilly

    Apostate Man - My email is open hon. I'm on my second marriage, and we've been separated for five years now due to the vindictive and downright evil barrage from his ex. wife. My husband and I fought for two years for his son and six years to see his daughter. Every month was a new lie - we had to tape every single call; every week was full of calls to his lawyer; every month was a new court date over one of her latest attempts at delay (she was good at this). It tore us apart. She attacked me, him, called his place of business (they are both RNs), called his family. She was on a mission, and it tore us apart.

    His two kids, my step-son and daughter, were caught in the middle of this heavy fire. It was especially hard on Logan, as Jenna was a newborn when it started.

    This is to give you an idea of the sheer ugliness of where I've been with family court - and she went further, pulling my psych records to try to prove I was a danger (she showed those records around - so much for confidentiality) and she accused my daughters of abuse as well. I sat through discoveries where her lawyer pulled apart my childhood, trying to use it as proof. All bull, and it didn't stick - but it took it's toll. I'd like to be there for you through this.

    Do NOT speak to her! As another poster said - get a good lawyer and make sure he/she has teeth! Only speak through the lawyers. Document everything. If she calls you - tape the conversations and date them. I suggest again that you not talk to her though, although you may need to record the calls to your children if she listens or interferes. You have some serious concerns - demand the kids see a child psychologist. Demand it. This is gonna be hell on them. Call Childrens Protection if you feel the need for earlier intervention.

    My email is due to change soon. So if the one in my profile bounces back to you - use this one:

    [email protected] I am also on icq 75076087 and on MSN messenger.

    Please keep in touch A- Man. ((((((((((((((((((((((((((Apostate Man))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

    Mim/Salem Family court is one of the hells on earth.

  • DJ
    DJ

    Thi Chi......hi, I'm sorry but i disagree about the custody issue. The mother is an alcoholic, that will definately play a big role in deciding who is best to care for the kids. Don't you think?

    Apostate man,

    So sorry to hear about his. I am a Christian xjw and I understand your question about the 'satanic demeanor'. I would also urge you NOT to bring those words into court. You will be the one who is thought of as crazy by the judge. I understand your emotions and I honestly have to say that, I agree with you on some level. The pyramidology, and the Johannes Greber and John1:1 issues, ETC.....are nothing to make light of or dismiss. I agree with you if you are saying that some of their doctrine is based on spirit mediums and new light from who knows who?? I think it is a dangerous cult too. I just would not say that to your family because it will only cause them to hate you and they will almost enjoy the 'persecution'. If you are sure that divorce is what you want, then my advice is to go with the facts. She is an alcoholic and her religion does endanger your children and I think that the judge will see that.

    I would also like to remind you that your kids probably love their mommy and please don't bad-mouth her to them. They will end up hating you for it. Your wife was raised a JW.......that explains most of her troubles, I feel sad for her too. She is probably drinking as a result of her upbringing and the pressure to stay with them. Poor thing. You seem to me to be a little out of control with anger and emotions right now and I guess that's only natural. Have you considered counseling yourself? It may be just what you need right now to release some of the pressure. When your kids are old enough, you can show them what you've learned and hopefully they will come to the same conclusion. I think that maybe ?? it would be a good idea to apologize to the family because of your allegation. They will hate you a little less, maybe. They are misled and telling them that they are in a satanic cult never does anything to help, unfortunately.

    My heart goes out to you. I'm sorry that I don't have the answers......keep us informed?

    love, dj

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    Sad news Apostate Man , I am sorry to hear of your problems .

    I think the previous posters have made wise comments. Dont forget that the WTS gives assistance and a Legal Pack to witnesses in child custody cases. I believe it encourages them to coach the youngsters to give the right answers to the questions.

    Take advice from your Legal Representative.

    Satanic? , No. just very "Human" not Godly at all. The most witnesses today hardly know about Pyramids and scandals of the Rutherford/Russell era.

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