JW's are semi-trinitarians and do not understand the Sacret Secret (page 2)

paradisebeauty

Village,

I do not mean a new kind of creature in the sense that they become angels who can incarnate in humans, I mean something else than human or angel.

A strange thing. After the resurrection Jesus speaks of his body as of flesh of bones and not as of flesh and blood.

This maybe can be linked with the fact that in the normal human body blood is the life of a person.

But the Bible also says that spirit is life.

So the new being might be of flesh and bones but with spirit as the life force.

Maybe this is why the Bible says when you believe and are born again you are born of spirit.

millie210

paradisebeauty,

I always admire people who think outside the box and think for themselves. No matter what conclusion you arrive at, its the journey that is oh so important.

My thought on your topic is that the idea of a like for a like - perfect man for perfect man - Jesus=Adam never made sense to me.

The reason was because Jesus was so superior IF he was created first and co-creator of everything that followed. How could he prove the argument you outlined above as to being the perfect Adam? He wouldnt even be in the same league! So I agree with that part.

Ive had the same thoughts about the death and ressurection that werent really all that remarkable if he was guaranteed ahead of time to only have parts of 3 days to be "gone" or dead.

If that is the case, many people have sacrificed more and died harder. So how can that be so significant?

Not trying to go off topic but one thought kind of lead to another....

paradisebeauty

millie 210

I think in the Bible there is a difference between guaranteed and foreseen. Maybe God foresees if He wants to do this but does not necessarily always does this. Maybe he did this in Jesus's case.

However, Jesus' s pain and suffering was real and I am sure God's, too. If you think about, Adam was created an adult, Jesus was born a baby and grew up as a normal man, I am sure God took care of him all this time and loved him very much, just as human parents do with children.

I think also they spent a lot of time together, probably God let Jesus know his feelings and his thoughts and his knowledge. so that Jesus could say that no one knows the father but the son. Maybe God revealed himself to Jesus so as He did not reveal Himself to no one else. Maybe not even to angels.

If this is so, it is possible for Jesus to would have known the way people can have eternal life in human form. (symbolized by that tree of life from Eden).

And if this is the case, then God took a very big risk with Jesus.

The Searcher

Here are some Bible references I first collated about 10 years ago, regarding the God/Jesus equality issue.

Jesus Has a God.

( X = Agrees 0 = Disagrees )

Bible Version RSV Amplified NIV NEB NKJ JB Living Good News

Micah 5:4 X X X X X X X 0

John 20:17 X X X X X X 0 X

Romans 15:6 X X X X X X 0 X

2 Corinthians 1:3 X X X X X X 0 X

2 Corinthians 11:31 X X X X X X 0 X

Ephesians 1:3 X X X X X 0 0 X

Hebrews 1:9 X X X X X X 0 X

1 Peter 1:3 X X X X X 0 X X

Revelation 1:6 X X X X X X X X

Revelation 3:2 X X X X 0 X X X

Revelation 3:12 X X X X X X 0 X

(What do Matt.20:23, Matt.24:36, & 1st Cor.15:25-28 tell us about Jesus' knowledge and power?)

Micah 5:4 - "And he will certainly stand and do shepherding in the strength of Jehovah, in the

superiority of the name of Jehovah his God. And they will certainly keep dwelling, for

now he will be great as far as the ends of the earth

John 20:17 - Jesus said to her: "Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But

be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to MY Father and

YOUR Father and to MY God and YOUR God.’

Romans 15:6 - That with one accord YOU may with one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord

Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:3 - Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ...................

2 Corinthians 11:31 - The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, even the One who is to be praised

forever, knows I am not lying.

Ephesians 1:3 - Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for he has blessed us with

every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in union with Christ,

Hebrews 1:9 - You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, YOUR God,

anointed you with [the] oil of exultation more than your partners."

1 Peter 1:3 - Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.............................

Revelation 1:6 - And he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father.......................

Revelation 3:2 - Become watchful, and strengthen the things remaining that were ready to die, for I

have not found your deeds fully performed before MY God

Revelation 3:12 - "The one that conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of MY God, and he

will by no means go out [from it] anymore, and I will write upon him the name of

MY God and the name of the city of MY God, the new Jerusalem which descends

out of heaven from MY God, and that new name of mine."

If God did materialize as Christ, then He was lying to his faithful servant Moses at Exodus 33:20, because centuries later He was prepared to take on a physical form and show it to the corrupt Pharisees & Sadducees.

Jesus must have lied twice to his apostles - Matthew 20:23 & Matthew 24:36. Also, the apostle Paul wasn't up to speed on the equality issue after Jesus returned to heaven - 1 Corinthians 15:28. The New English Bible uses the word 'subordinate'.

coalize

I never understand why people who successfully left behind a brain-washing cult, are trying to auto-brain-washing themselves with theories as stupid as those of WTBTS.

Only one opinion on this subject. Paradise, use your brain for very important matter, and let this intellectual masturbation to dumb people!

TheWonderofYou

Hi paradsebeauty,

Wish you find "the beauty" in every word used in the Bible, only...it is so much work to study all these thousands words....if I wouldn have nearly 40 years of "bible-reading" behind me, I would totally collapse in view of the big job to understand everything.

TheWonderofYou

I like theology because I see it as "brain jogging".

TheWonderofYou

paradisebeauty:
I like the comparison:

Adam was perfect human being -- Jesus was a perfect human being.

1. Adam >>>>>>>>> 2nd Adam

But where does the bible say that Adam was a "perfect human being" do the

unitarian christian say that Adam was such perfect human being, do they assume it because they think

that all other humans are "secondary sinners" an not orginal sinners?. Or was he only a normal good fellow?

Think of the fact that Adam never existed as single person, that "ADAM" in hebrew, aramaic,... means only "Man form the Earth" and that he Adam is therefore only a metaphorical used in the legend of Adam and Eve.

What ever the lessions of that parable of Adam and Eve may be, paraidsebeauty, somehow it is teaching a paradise yes. ..but think...

As Adam was no real person...only a metaphor... the second Adam (used by Paul) is only a metaphor too.Didnt he say "last adam" not "2nd"?

Adam >>>> metaphor

last Adam >>>metaphor.

Did Paul use "Adam" to make a biological statement about Adam or Jesus' biological perfection? No it was a theological argument to show that Jesus is a new creation by God.....

And thus you are right! He is a new creation!...

The statement about God is, that God intervenes in the history, God is near and his kingdom is near not far away because God made a new beginning with Jesus.

That was the turning point in the history of mankind.

Through Adam (or adamic biological struggle) we cant eternal life = through ourselves, the mankind cant produce its salvation so it was necessar to bring eternal life. The last Adam give us that eternal life (superior life=ZOE).

Through the "last adam" the humankind lately achieves its final destiny. What do you think about that "truth? Thats simple catolic theology, which can be read in catolic books. I read that in a book of Pope Benedikt,tha Pope before Francis, he is a splendid theologian, he is responsible also for the new catechism, the summary of catolic belief.

P.S: What kind of perfect human being.Adam should have been... biological perfect, superman, sinless?

paradisebeauty

TheWonderOfYou,

If he was not God he could not save us. A man cant save us, He said " I am the life" , "I am the surrection", " I am the way"

I think it is God who saves us through Jesus Christ. Jesus did not say I am "the Saviour" Jesus' name means Yah is salvation.

If Jesus alone saves us, it is like humans saved themselves. It is God that saves us through His son, Jesus, a man. Jesus is the way to salvation and to resurrection provided by God

A cooperation between God and man / human nature, because of God's grace and wisdom, and in the end humanity is restored to unity with God.

Vidiot

I find the Law of Attraction an easier "Secret" to understand.

JW's are semi-trinitarians and do not understand the Sacret Secret

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