"WHAT IF...."

Dia

What if...

* ...you wanted to create a system that would 'oversee' certain criminal types to allow them to do the societally beneficial things they're capable of (holding down a job, contributing to the GDP and perhaps providing food and/or shelter for offspring and/or spouses) WHILE keeping them OFF the tax roles, either as welfare recipients or expensive 'residents' of the criminal justice system.

* ...you also wanted, without the expense of locking them up, to somehow keep them 'to themselves', AWAY from society in general, so they couldn't do harm to the 'average guy'.

Would you do much different than what the WTS has been doing for the last many years?

Just asking....

Nanoprobe

just answering......

Oh, is that what the society has been doing?

1) The society has definitely spared governments the burden of expensive 'residents' of the criminal justice system.

2) But do you actually believe they couldn't do harm to the 'average guy'?

Two convicted molesters I know forgot to leave the average guy or the local neighbor girl alone and ended up as expensive residents of the criminal justice system. Too bad they couldnt have just followed your suggestion to continue molesting only in the local congregation, after all there they had already started a career as.. certain criminal types.

One idiot molested three little girls and stuck with the only little JW Girls policy but her unbaptized Daddy called the cops. Guess he didn't apppreciate the good work of the society.

Nanoprobe

Have you given one thought to Justice for the Victims?
You need to educate yourself on the crime of child molestation. Do you think it is an accident or possibly a mistake, something like two consenting adults engaging in fornication?
Pick which one of these guys you want to defend & support in the congregation. Which one will benefit most from the elders loving care? Can you even determine which category the molester belongs in?
preferential child molester
These offenders have a sexual preference for children and usually maintain these desires throughout their lives. Preferential child molesters can have an astounding number of victims and these crimes can remain undiscovered for many years. These types of offenders wreak havoc upon society far out of proportion to their numbers.
situational child molester
He will have low self-esteem, maintain poor moral standards and view sex with children as an opportunity to prolong the violence that is already an active component of his existence.
The situational child molester will usually have few victims, sometimes only one, and never repeat the event again. He could be a social misfit or a psychopathic personality who harbors a seething resentment and hostility toward society in general.
PedophilesMany of these offenders have extensive collections of child pornography or child erotica that feed their fantasy world. He has a twisted sexual compulsion for children whose origins are separate and apart from criminality. They feel they are part of a special progressive movement and one day society will come to accept, what they see as, their sacred ritual of adult/child sex

More info: http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/psychology/pedophiles/3.htm

Your post is proof of Amazings theory REAL REASON WHY ELDERS WON'T REPORT http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=32976&site=3

searcher

I am sorry but I do not play 'what if' when it comes to child molesters.

I have brought up 5 children and now have 2 grandchidren and MY policy towards child molesters has NEVER changed:-

IF IT COME'S OUT, IT'S COMING OFF!

searcher

Dia

Please don't misunderstand. I'm not promoting 'what if?' -- I'm just pondering the risk/benefit equation in the context of JWs and trying to explore whether there is ANY damned reason at all that ANYONE would want to allow them to continue doing what they do. I wonder if, statistically, they have managed to 'keep it to themselves' overall - and I'm THRILLED to hear of cases where they have NOT succeeded at this or any other abuse of ANYONE. Still pondering, tho.....

searcher

Dia

You seem to be having a problem with this, it is impossible for any system to be set up for these circumstances, exept the one that is already in place:-

Find the offenders.

Prove the offence.

Lock them away in a mental home or prison to protect the innocent.

The justice system has been worked out over many years and contains input from , lawers, sociologists, psychiatrists, psycologists and many others.

The watchtower policy contains input from some old men in Brooklin who seem to have lost touch with the world.

No contest.

searcher

Dia

Yes, yes, I understand.

I'm not talking about a grand plan, however (or conspiracy, if you will). But I guess I'm wondering if a long series of oversites and roadblocks and diversions and allowances - and irritations and frustrations (we are afterall, talking about people trying to deal with JWs) and other assorted what-nots, perhaps coupled with some real evil, some real 'money-saving' evil, might not have led us to the place where we are now.

"Follow the money", y'know.

Edited by - Dia on 24 July 2002 22:34:9

Nanoprobe

But I guess I'm wondering if a long series of oversites and roadblocks and diversions and allowances - and irritations and frustrations (we are afterall, talking about people trying to deal with JWs) and other assorted what-nots, perhaps coupled with some real evil, some real 'money-saving' evil, might not have led us to the place where we are now.

I'm not sure I understand your comment, but I believe you are wondering how the WTBS arrived at their Child Protection Policy, is that correct?

A good question and not one any of us could actually answer, but I have a thought or two on it.

Did the WTBS have a clear understanding of Child Abuse/Molestation? The answer must be yes, based on their own Awake Child Protection articles. Articles written in the '80's

Did the WTBS have a clear indication that the two witnesses' reguired policy was a horrible travesty? Imagine the amount of letters, reports from elders and circuit overseers they must have received day after day, year after year for the last 20 years.

Did the WTBS feel can compassion, show any desire to change to help children? The answer is No, until Bill Bowen shined a light on them, and then only small small changes. Mostly just reminders of how WTBS is always right and everyone else is therefore wrong.

Edited by - nanoprobe on 24 July 2002 23:5:26

Dia

"...imagine the amount of letters, reports..."

If we are to believe that they received a lot of protests about the two-witness policy as it relates to child abuse, then we must believe, I think, one of two things:

Either they:

1) Felt 'locked in' by the 'laws' of the Bible - that they had no choice, they MUST do things this way (this is really hard to imagine, given the many, many places in the Bible where it instructs us to care for women and children, the innocent, the downtrodden, etc., etc., etc. Really, it would seem they had to go through an inordinate amount of trouble to find an excuse to CREATE this policy and then to keep it.

2) They have a personal interest in the policy. It serves them in some way.

Nanoprobe

To back up the . . if we believe......

I know of five letters written to the Watchtower Service Committee in one recent case. This is not counting the letters sent to the BOE and the CO, which were forwarded to WTBS also.
I would assume other families, friends, etc would have written similar letters to WTBS. Getting your head slammed into a concrete wall in dealing with the elders provokes outrage and a cry for help (as useless as it will be)
All told it must be a mountain of mail and outrage.
I thought there was a newspaper article where Barbara Anderson referred to handling complaints on child abuse but I didnt find it. Below are a couple of comments that point in that direction. The first is by AlanF, the second is from Dateline

Barbara was a research assistant to several senior members of the Society's Writing Department, doing at times historical research, and research into complaints the Society received about its handling of child molestation and abuse of women by JW men.
She was a primary research assistant to Karl Adams for the JW history book Jehovah's Witnesses: Proclaimers of God's Kingdom
( source: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=10496&site=3&page=3).

LARSON: (Voiceover) Anderson was a researcher at the Watchtower Society in the
early 1990s when a senior official there asked her to look into the church's
handling of sexual abuse cases. What she found, she says, sickened her:
hundreds of molestation cases on record, all kept secret in church
files--secret not only from the outside world, but from the members themselves,
the families, the mothers and fathers and children who trust the church is
looking out for them.

( source: Transcript NBC DATELINE )

I guessing choice #2 of your comment is correct.

Edited by - nanoprobe on 25 July 2002 12:39:24

"WHAT IF...."

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