by haujobbz 51 Replies latest jw friends
With that said, Christianity, including the Catholic Church, is based upon the Ressurrection of Jesus Christ
BYW--I once dated a guy that was clinically dead for a few minutes.....umm I guess that would mean the doctors in our time brought him back to life.
So the whole resurrection thing holds no water IMO.
Spice,
BYW--I once dated a guy that was clinically dead for a few minutes.....
What did you do to the poor guy??
- Jan
LMAO--------funnie Jan----it was way before we dated.....tee heee
Every generation believes they are the most enlightened
I don't understand the point.
Of course every generation before thought they were the most enlightened - at the time, they WERE. That doesn't change the fact that the conclusions they drew were frequently incorrect because the scientific method (which guarantees useful data) was simply not in place until recently. CERTAINLY, the communications methods that today allow scientists to check and re-check and verify each others work were never in place before.
is abundant proof that it occurred that you are simply choosing not to believe.
GODS, I have had this argument SO MANY TIMES recently. Sorry, but there is NO PROOF. Not ONE SHRED of evidence. First thing you do when starting a religion is claim divine inspiration and write a book or two to 'prove it'.
Now, that eliminates the 'gospels' as a source (sorry, but the gospel writers, as founders of a new religion, obviously have a very obvious agenda for lying).
Now, that said, find me ONE SINGLE CREDIBLE SOURCE. Guess what? THERE AIN'T ONE!
Your argument makes no sense. There is no reason to believe that we are the most enlightened generation that will finally see the overthrow of religion because we are so smart and have all of the answers. So much of what the earlier generations thought was true has been proven false, why would you ever think we are any smarter than those who will come after us, or even those who came before us. Alot of what we think is the "truth" will soon be shown yo be false and we will be thought of as idiots for believing it.
As for your arguments about theGospels, you are simply wrong. The only incentive the Gospel writers had to write the Gospels was to preserve the truth that they knew happened. The price they paid for exposing themselves and standing up for what they knew to be the truth was their deaths. Name for me one person who died for what they knew to be a lie? Don't confuse that with people who die for their beliefs, its not the same thing. The Gospel writers claimed to be eyewitnesses to the event, not merely people who had faith in it. So for them to go to their deaths, they did so knowing they were right based on what they knew, not merely on what they believed in. If you want to argue the validity of the Gospels I would welcome that debate.
Spice it up, please read my post again. Jesus was ressurected without any intervention from doctors, and certainly not doctors with the medical knowledge we have today. Congradulations on your past boyfriend, but how does that disprove the ressurection?
Spice it up, please read my post again. Jesus was ressurected without any intervention from doctors, and certainly not doctors with the medical knowledge we have today. Congradulations on your past boyfriend, but how does that disprove the ressurection?
Never said it did..I was actually proving that we can do things now that would have been considered miracles many years ago....hows that for an example.
There is no reason to believe that we are the most enlightened generation that will finally see the overthrow of religion because we are so smart and have all of the answers.
OMG----how many times do i have to say it before you finally understand---
I DONT BELIEVE THAT RELIGION WILL EVER GO AWAY--IT IS MERELY GOING TO CHANGE HOW WE PRACTICE IT---DO YOU HAVE IT NOW..OR WILL I HAVE TO REPEAT MYSELF AGAIN IN A FEW HOURS!!!!!!
Spice of the tired of repeating herself class
we are any smarter than those who will come after us
I never said that. I said, we were the smartest era to date.
Alot of what we think is the "truth" will soon be shown yo be false
Ah, now, see, that's exactly incorrect. The thing that DOES make us so different from previous generations is that we are MUCH slower to accept something as 'unfailingly true'. Indeed, accepting some new discovery today as 'unfailingly true' is damn near impossible - even when it IS true - the process takes so VERY long.
The only incentive the Gospel writers had to write the Gospels was to preserve the truth that they knew happened
Uh-no? They were trying to start their own religion?
Name for me one person who died for what they knew to be a lie
1) We have no documented proof from anyone other than christians (who, again, have an agenda for lying) that any of the gospel writers (or ANY of the new testament writers, for that matter) died for their beliefs, or were even persecuted. Again, we have ONLY THEIR WORD FOR IT, and they have an obvious agenda for lying.
2) As to your question? Oh, I dunno, David Koresh? Marshall Applewhite (leader of the Heaven's Gate cult)? Jim Jones (People's Temple cult)? Hitler? Need I go on?
Re: Will religion ever be banned?JMO, YES
Spice it up,
I have understood youor point all along. My comments were directed to the banning or demise of organized religion, not to the idea of relision or spirituality.
Xander, history does not support your argument that we are more disbelieving today. Look at all of the scientists over the years whose new ideas were not believed even well after their deaths. People in the past were much more reluctant to accept new ideas or new truths than we are today. If the opposite were true, why do you think technology and science is advancing so much more rapidly today?
Your examples of people who died, Kroesch, Hitler, did not answer my question. Those were people who died for what they believed to be the truth, they did not die for what they knew to be a lie. The Gospel writers died for what they knew to be the truth because they witnessed it or were taught by those who did ( in Mark's case). If they knew it was a lie that they had made up would they have gone to their deaths? The facts are that they became outcasts in their own culture for preaching what they did and ultimately were put to death for it. You are incorrect when you claim that there is no proof that they died as martyers. The proof that they did is unquestionable.
You need to understand the nature of the Gospel writers and the disciples in the context of their times. They were simple people- fishermen, tax collectors, etc.. They were revieled for what they taught. They were not looked upon with fame and fortune. Their effort to spread the Gospel was done so at the loss of their families, their professions, their culture and ultimatley their lives. They had no worldly incentive to"start a religion". The motive we would give to their actions today simply was not there.
Look at all of the scientists over the years whose new ideas were not believed even well after their deaths
They only reason their ideas were not accepted was because the prevailing logic of the time already had an explanation in place that would not allow change (IE., the 'reason' something happened had already been prematurely accepted as 'correct').
If the opposite were true, why do you think technology and science is advancing so much more rapidly today?
The opposite IS true. So, why are we advancing so fast? Well, instead of having 1 or 2 prevailing scientists per generation, we have millions.
Not only that, but we know also have computers which can do the 'busy work' that would have taken thousands of man-years to do in earlier times.
Makes a bit of difference, don't you think?
Those were people who died for what they believed to be the truth, they did not die for what they knew to be a lie.
I'm sorry, if you HONESTLY think David Koresh REALLY BELIEVED he was the promised messiah, or that Marshall Applewhite REALLY THOUGHT their was a UFO following Hale-Bopp....*shakes head*
d00d - you need help.
You are incorrect when you claim that there is no proof that they died as martyers. The proof that they did is unquestionable
WHAT PROOF?!?!?!? WHERE!?!?
You keep saying 'the proof is' or 'the proof shows' - but you have not provided ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE that they weren't lying about the whole thing. NOT ONE!
They were simple people....They were not looked upon with fame and fortune.....They had no worldly incentive to"start a religion".
Uh? d00d? You just provided the reason right there?
They were simple people.
Without fame or fortune.
Uh....YEAH....all through human history we have proof after proof after example after example validating the one truth that humans seek fame and fortune. We just DO - that's our nature.
Indeed, distinguishing ourselves 'from the herd', as it were, is an evolutionary trait common in ALL animals.
