Mormonism - a few points

by Amazing 26 Replies latest jw friends

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  Amazing

  Mormonism is an enigma. They extol higher education, then turn right around and insult education by their FARMs archeology site sponsored by BYU. Just how this religion ever got by as far as they did is beyond me. Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham was thoroughly discredited by experts in Egyptian writing and history ... it was published in a Dec 1912 full page article in the NY Times ... I have a full copy.

  Study Mormonism: I have studied a measure of this religion on and off for 25 years. Then, after leaving the JWs, I was able to engage Mormon Missionaries more directly and attend their church for a time. I did not do so with the idea of joining ... the JWs burned that out of me ... but I wanted to know about them more, out of curiosity. So ... Some years ago, I had Mormon Missionaries visit me for 6 months, then again for another 6 months after I moved back to Oregon. (they are supposed to keep the study program to 6 weeks). Ha ha ... not with me ... though much of this is their problem because they change out missionaries every two to three weeks ... so that I often had to start over with the next set of missionaries.

  The Book of Mormon (BOM): I argued with the Mormons that the foundation of their religion is based on the BOM, and we need to go through it ... I practically had to hog-tie them, because contrary to popular opinion, Mormons do not want to study the BOM, but they prefer their little 6 lesson plan and to prove that they can use the Bible. Still, I finally got these people into the BOM ... and with a little careful effort, you can unravel the lunacy, inconsistency, and fraud of the BOM ... it shoots itself in the foot ... the BOM is a very poor effort at fiction ... I would not be surprised if some budding writer wrote it, and when he tried to get it published, the publishing companies turned him down so much, they he gave up and tossed it in the trash ... then Joey Smith was rummaging around and found it. This might have been the case. Supposedly there was a belief at one time that Spalding was the author, and Smith stole the manuscript, but this has never been proven. Average Mormons have very little comprehension as to what the BOM really says.

  Mormon Secret Ceremonies: The other night, when our ex-Mormon friends supplied the link to a live recording of a Mormon Endowment Ceremony, where young Mormon men and women are anointed into Priest and Priestess, I was able to listen to much of it ... it sounds like a scene from an Indiana Jones Temple of Doom animal sacrifice movie ... listening to these guys chant adulation to Jehovah's name sent chills up my apostate spine. ... I would love to read what Farkel has to say about the ceremony! I know some of the words he would use. LOL It appears that Joey Smith and Chucky Russell both had love of Egyptology in common ... and it is almost as if these two religions were spawned by an underlying conspiracy ... but, I hate claims of conspiracy, so I guess it is just a coincidence.

  Tithing and love of Money: Mormons are supposed to support at least two different funds, each costing them 10% of their income (although several Mormon Missionaries have touted 3 funds, each costing 10% to a Mormon ... so, after the Feds and State takes their 50%, and the Mormon Church takes its 20% to 30%, a Mormon is left with about 20% to live on ... LOL ... Just to get their "Temple Recommend" you must prove to your Bishop via pay stubs and bank statements that you have given a basic 10% ... so that one's full spiritual participation is based on filthy lucre. I confronted the Mormon Missionaries with this ... and they just acted embarassed.

  Watchtower & Mormon Connection: What surprised me was a few years ago, maybe about 7 to 9 years, the WTS came out with an article in the Watchtower magazine praising Joseph Smith, after all the years the Watchtower badmouthed the Mormon beliefs, they started sounding really chummy ... and another interesting piece of information: In Richland, Washington, the Mormon church donated land to build the new Kingdom Hall there ... that took place somewhere in the early 1990s ... the land was part of the Mormon Church property ... so the Kingdom Hall sits right next to the Mormon Church ... two peas in a pod ... I will not be surprised if one day these two religions merge.

  Interesting Evidence: Some years ago, I obtained a research paper written by a JW. He studied many Mormon beliefs, documented the source references, and then took his work to a Mormon Stake Patriarch, who not only verified the material but added two more pages to the paper. The names and addresses of these people are stated for the record ... in that work, the Mormon beliefs are exposed as utterly sickening ... this is where the sources show that Brigham Young believed that Adam was God, the "only God with whoim they have to do." ... other material I have quote Joey Smith as saying that he is greater than Jesus Christ ... so, if anyone wants, I will quote or copy and scan these and post them.
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  Sentinel

  Amazing,

  Thanks for your post. Aside from working with a lady who is Mormon, I really know very little. I had been wanting to get the book of Mormon just to research, and be somewhat knowledgeable about them for discussion purposes. Years ago, they came to our home when I was still in High School, and we had some interesting conversations.

  We saw an ad on TV last night for a free copy of their book, so I called to get one sent to me. Then they wanted to arrange for a "visit", which I promptly turned down. The young lady who spoke to me had born into the Mormon beliefs, and she was Mormon borg, through and through. Very nice though, and I think I did get some major points across to her.

  I suggested to her that she really needs to find her "own truth". That she should never take anything for granted. And to question everything and anything, because that is the only way she will figure life out for herself. (It seemed to please her that I was a former JW The Mormons are growing in our area here, as well as JW's, who have building plans submitted for two new structures.

  Sentinel
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  Salud

  Amazing,

  In the age of mega-mergers, airlines, banks etc, it would not surprise me to see a JW/LDS merger. But who would be president??

  Anyway good points made esp. w/ the tithing. I knew Mormons who were members in GOOD standing not because they were regulars at their church but because they were regular with their tithings and they were of sizable amounts.
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  Kenneson

  Amazing,

  I am interested in your source and quote of what Joe Smith had to say about his greatness. Please post it. Thanks.
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  Amazing

  Hi Kenneson: Okay, I'll dig in my Mormon box later today and see what I drag up ... Joey Smith and Brigham Young said some really cool stuff in the JOD ... you would be amazed.
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  mr party

  when talking to mormons, i would open to the last page, of the book of mormon, find where it says jehovah, to show them how much we had in common, thay were surprised most of the time.
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  Double Edge

  I know the poster QUANTUM got a lot of people worked up with his in-your-face postings on Mormanism. I said it before, he opened himself up with the intelligent responses, however I still hate people bashing other peoples religions. I came on this board to learn why my JW friend is the they are...now I know. But never have I bashed them for their religious beliefs - I felt that I had no right to speak, never being a JW - I left that for those of you who left the religion and who had first hand experience.

  Amazing: When I first came on this board, I read with 'amazement' (no pun intended) your serialized account of how you joined the JW's, the years you spent in it and the monumental task it took to finally rid yourself. I loved your writing and put your name on my short list of those whose posts I looked forward to reading.... I'm sorry to say this wasn't one of them.

  I've looked into the LDS religion, and I must say it isn't the one that is so abundantly shrouded in the evil darkness as portrayed on this board. What I've read here, and what I've experienced is like night and day. It makes me wonder if a lot of the comments come from a deeply biased mindset of the hurt experienced as former JW members.

  Your statement regarding Tithing is totally inacurate, and therefore brings into question the validity of all your assertions. This is one topic that I DO know about and double checked as to the facts. First of all, there are not 3 tithing categories, only one. Ten percent on your "increase". Some Mormans understand that to mean 10% on your gross, others on the net income. There is NO set policy, and from what I understand, even Mormans debate that amongs themselves.

  Secondly, once a month, on a Sunday, Mormans fast for a couple of meals, and the money that is suppose to have been saved, goes into what is called a Fast Offering. There is no set amount, and certainly NOT 10%. I supposed if you saved two Taco Bell meals your offering would be about $4.00. That money goes into their Welfare System...which by the way, Mormans in financial trouble are suppose to go to their Church first, before the government. Last night, one of the morman bashers said that the church goes to their house once a month, and some elderly lady owed them $90,000. How guillible is anyone on this board to believe that sh*t!

  Lastly, you mentioned a 3rd 10% that was owed. I've been told that up until a few years ago, some people in their congregations paid what was called a budget collection, for the local upkeep of their church facilities- that was discontinued. Now the MAJOR point I want to make in correcting this misinformation, is that as a Morman if you pay or don't pay into any of those funds, no one is going after you, or looking down at you as "spiritually weak" or "bad association" or not "mature". You can't be D/A'd, D/F'd or even discovered, because it isn't common knowledge among the congregation what you do or don't pay...they don't pass the plate around.

  One last point, you mentioned something in the first paragraph or so, that you took their study lessons from their missonaries with no intention of ever joining..in fact, it sounds like you did it to 'nail' them on their 'different theology' ok, whatever...but in doing so, with that mindset, could anything they ever said or did would have been correct? It sounds like the upstopable force/immoveable object conundum...and what a waste of time.
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  Jesus Christ

  Man, those people are a bunch of nuts. I can't even begin to describe what a laugh dad, the angels, and I get out of what they put out. Its amazing what some of you people will believe.
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  refiners fire

  Amazing.

  The situation with the mormon missionaries is very interesting.

  I dont know that it is planned to work out as it does, but the effect of their method is to create psychic confusion.

  Yes, they rotate around on you in their visits like crazy, so you are constantly dealing with new people. They spring surprises on you like inviting you to study with them somewhere and you roll up and there are 12 people there unexpectedly.They also jump you around. One get together with the missionaries they had me go to two seperate houses both of which had messages directing me to go else where for the meeting. it was like an Easter egg hunt.The effect of this is to create disorientation in the mind of the recruitee.

  They also RUSHED me into baptism within a week of meeting me for the first time. Baptism is only a first step in a whole tier of "obedience" practises on the stairway to heavenly glory.The story of how I got baptized into the MoMos is a tale in itself. They applied intense psychological pressure onto me to commit to baptism. This was done in front of a group of eager smiling concerned Momos, all of whom "loved" me very dearly.

  Harrassing phone calls, phone calls at 11pm. It all happened in Mormon recruitment technique.

  Pretty interesting stuff.
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  Double Edge

  J.C. ... I have real strong doubts that you are who you say you are...but if you are for real, don't expect a lot of respect from some here. Several posters here deny that you're devine and think that the religion that follows your teachings and the Bible's is as bogus as the book of Morman.