Wholewheat please read.

by Pureheart 18 Replies latest jw friends

  • NewWay
    NewWay

    WholeWheat:

    I understand your concerns about how some people adopt a 'no holds barred' type approach to posting. As usual, Hillary_Step gave a well-reasoned explanation and valid observations with regard to 'board life'. Of course in an ideal debating environment, there would be respect for each person even if there was not respect for each view. Name-calling, being verbally abusive to individuals, put-downs, and being generally provocative, is in my view rather childish, that is why I am wary of certain people here who appear to revel in being abusive. I have, of course, the option not converse with them. These people are time wasters. The worst are those who use 'hook and bait' techniques to draw you into endless discussions that lead nowhere. They do no good to their cause (whether pro- or anti- the society/JWs). In my experience these people inhabit all sorts of forums (not just religious). They are like a vindictive kid on the beach who comes along and kicks over another child's sandcastle. For what reason? It gives them a sense of power. I'm talking about personal attacks on individuals. Now you come across as being a reasonable, thinking person, and this is just the sort of person I and others are pleased to engage in conversation, even if we may strongly disagree with that other person's point of view on a certain matter.

    There are some online posters in various forums who claim to be active 'loyal' JWs (and we only have their word for it!), but display an aggressive and abusive nature. I wonder if they would be like this if they were actually talking face to face with the other person. Here I think is the key: It is the mode of communication which provides the temptation to be less than civil. It is the shielding from physical human confrontation that makes it so easy to abuse others with seeming impunity. Just like road rage, people who may ordinarily check their behaviour let go of restraint because their vehicles provide a protective enclosure and the mobility to 'escape'. I used to wonder how people who got drunk could become aggressive, because alcohol only makes me sleepy and more relaxed. It seems obvious to me that given the right conditions (i.e. no/few restraints) people will exhibit their true inner self.

    People who verbally abuse others in cyberspace are not really the type of people I would want to talk to in real life, so why should I talk to them here? Don't be put off by those who have decided that its 'JW season' and that taking pot shots at JWs is therefore fair game. There are members here who, once they are satisfied that you are not out to 'get them', are more than willing to engage in meaningful and respectful discussions.

    Lastly, however, I would repeat what other members have said, and which you need to keep in mind in order not to throw out the baby with the bath water. Many folk have legitimate cause for complaint about things that have happened to them that are directly related to living life as a JW. So don't be surprised when you see posts lampooning the society and jokes directed to those within the organisation who abuse their positions of authority over others. This is a non-personally abusive way of releasing righteous indignation, but it is not necessarily directed toward JWs in general. In my own case, my argument is with the society, not with individual JWs, many of whom (in my experience) are kind, pleasant people to know and fit in well with my value-system of concern and respect for others. I do appreciate there are congregations like yours where it appears one can freely discuss concerns about the society without fear of being labelled 'apostate' - but based on the experience of many JWs and XJWs they are the exception rather than the rule. I think it only proper that you should treasure your friendships with the loving brothers and sisters you have in your congregation.

    Kind regards,

    NW.
  • Francois
    Francois

    Wholewheat, I have to agree with some of the others here. You come across as condescending, superior and smug. Posting with you has a very large element in it that feels like being spoken down to from a very great height.

    You are making a very big mistake. There are people here who, intellectually, could eat you for breakfast and look around for more. Loose the superior attitude. Loose the "I'm gonna counsel the poor, lost, ignorant souls." Get real. The last thing we need here is another self-righteous elder type intoning knowingly about things we've known for decades.

    Francois

  • SYN
    SYN

    Wholewheat,

    I really have nothing against you as a person - even though it may seem I'm totally against you and it looks like I'm flaming you every time I post on one of your threads, keep in mind that I have nothing against you personally, but your Organization is a serious "thorn in my flesh", so to speak. Also, you are a willing member of a Society that has done some extremely wrong things, and yet you believe they are from God.

    The point that there are a few "bad apples" in the barrel of the Society (a very bad anology) has been made, but you have to ask yourself, who is in charge? What happens if the guys in chargeare bad apples to begin with?

    How can you just dismiss all the facts and information on this and other XJW sites? I simply don't understand it. There is all this evidence staring you in the face that the Society is nothing more than a high-control group with a cultish leaning (I won't call it a full-blown cult out of consideration for lurkers), and yet you IGNORE IT?

    When do you stop saying that Satan is behind all the problems in the Organization and actually start DOING SOMETHING about those problems? Answer: You cannot. You may not question your leaders. Welcome to 1984, dude. You are a victim of mind-control, and you are controlled so well that you don't even realize it.

    Once again, I reiterate my original point, that I am trying to HELP you, not INSULT you. My main objective with any post I have made on a thread of yours up to now has been to try and help you see the Truth. Hopefully I've been of some assistance, but even if I haven't, maybe some lurker will be "encouraged".

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    wholewheat,

    : Could Jehovah be cleaning house at Headquarters?

    Could Jehovah have never had a house at those "headquarters?'

    Farkel

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost
    Could Jehovah have never had a house at those "headquarters?'

    And that is the question that all 'thinking' dubs will have to wrestle with. The conclusion may be too agonising to contemplate. so many dubs simply put it to one side, but the question remains, it won't go away.....................

  • Cygnus
    Cygnus

    Wait just a cotton-pickin minute. This board is about Jehovah's Witnesses? Ack. See ya'll later.

  • Imbue
    Imbue

    SYN Says: *in a masculine voice* What happens if the guys in charge are bad apples to begin with?

    This is a quote from a book the WT has utilized for it's understandings.

    If the head be corrupt, so also must be the members The Two Babylons Alexander Hislop

  • larc
    larc

    Wholewheat, I appreciated the honest and sincerity of your last post. I am sure that the Dateline program was quite a shock to you, especially if you are in a congregation that does not have such problems. I think your first reaction was to deny that the program was accurate. Probably your next step was to believe that such evils may exist, but were a very rare occurance. Now, that you have been here awhile, it is probably becoming apparant to you that this problem is more pervasive than you thought. I know this is very tough for you to take. It was for many of us as well. I wish you well on a most difficult journey.

  • Pureheart
    Pureheart

    Hi wholewheat,

    if you seriously want those questions answered that you asked above, order the book; In Search of Christian Freedom by Ray Franz. You can order it online from http://www.amazon.com. I completed it about 2 weeks ago and it answered every question that I had about the WTS.

    After you read it you will not need to ask any more questions about the WTS. Oh maybe one; "What are they up to now"?

    Pureheart

    Edited by - pureheart on 4 July 2002 15:17:16

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