APOSTATES unreliable witnesses ... huh ? (page 2)

dungbeetle

Hey amac:

Of course you would. I see this technique demonstrated all the time at the Kingdom hall. Not to mention which, it's in the reasoning book.

< do agree that there are certain emotional resentments in "apostates" that can easily distort views and prevent objectivity. >

'There are certain emotional resentments that can easily distort views and prevent objectivity...' IN EVERY HUMAN BEING THAT WALKS THE FACE OF THIS EARTH WHO HAS A PULSE AND AN IQ OVER 50.

Yeah let's do that. let's keep in mind the deep obvious emotional connection one has when they discover they have been lied to for 50 years and given up home hearth and family for a bunch of murdering thieving as*holes. And let's keep in mind they have two choices...go blindly along and hope nobody notices that the 'emporer has no clothes' orr they can stop their involvement, turn around and try to help others with the damage that was done. Yeah that person's gonna be real objective when THEY are interviewed.

More and more JW's are finally choosing the latter course. They are voting with their feet and with their wallets. They run the risk of being labled every name in the book by those inside and outside the religion, but they bravely push ahead and do good works. It's been my privilege to meet a few.

<I think this is evident in AlanF's response where he repeatedly nametag's this man/men as morons>.

Alan is being too generous. Some of the public that the Rodney Starks and the Klievers are misleading are going to die. What do you call someone like that.

amac

Please see above post for case in point.

Nathan Natas

Amac feels cool now.

After you've been around for a bit, Amac, and you realize that DungBeetle has done way more to help WTS victims than you can imagine, you might want to apologize for the cheap shot.

amac

Thanks for the heads up Nathan, but if you were to do a search on my posts you will see that Dung tends to follow me around and reply to most of posts with emphatic, over the top, dramatic, and sometimes slanderous statements. I have repeatedly asked her not to reply to my posts, but she continues.

JT

amac

if you don't mind what is your current status if i may ask

LDH

Amac's current status is "stuck on stupid."

even if they have the right to be angry, it takes away their objectivity of being an expert witness. Not that what they have to say isn't important...

So basically you're saying that *if* you find out the truth about something, you should only speak about that subject in a blithe, lackadaisical manner.

Because should it make you ANGRY to find out that, (i.e., for example, women in Africa have their entire clitoris removed and their vaginal lips sewn together in a grotesque surgery at puberty), you have then lost your credibility as an expert.

You are advocating that the only "expert witnesses" are those who have no vested interest in the matter. Anyone who exhibits emotionalism on the subject at hand is not to be believed.

Lisa

alliwannadoislive

am sorry i posted this now ... i guess the point is, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and maybe we should be more tolerant of our differences - otherwise, are we any better than the borg ?

i lived through 19 years of the brainwashing - to whatever extent that is considered so - and i feel balanced in my views - i feel i make an expert witness on the effect this cult can have on people - equally i am happy to accept that others may consider me unreliable - i don't mind that ...

hey you guys - kiss and make up huh?

amac

I am sorry that I am not the best at expressing my thoughts in writing. This is a result of being "stuck on stupid" as the almighty and rightfully pompous LDH has pointed out.

In reply:

LDH -

You are advocating that the only "expert witnesses" are those who have no vested interest in the matter.

No, obviously an expert witness would have to have an interest, or they wouldn't be an expert. To use your African example. If I needed an expert witness, I would not choose an African woman who has liberated herself from her tribe and it's traditions and in her newfound state was quite pissed off about what her tribe did to her. This doesn't mean I discount what she has to say, but for an expert I would rather have someone that does not feel they have been (or has been) victimized by the party in question. Just my opinion, and we all know what those are worth.

JT-

if you don't mind what is your current status if i may ask

I don't mind. I am agnostic. My wife is still a practicing JW and, while I don't hide my beliefs from her, I fully support her decision and attend meetings with her and my children. Most of my friends and family are still JWs.

sf

http://www.freedommag.org/english/vol28I2/page34.htm

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http://home.snafu.de/tilman/faq-you/cult.apologists.txt

k) Lonnie Kliever (Mr.)

Similar to Bryan Wilson, this one is a professor in the Religious
Studies Department at Southern Methodist University in Dallas.

http://germany.freedommag.org/experts/eng/kliever01.pdf

He "deplores the example of official German intolerance of Scientology",
"independently" from other scholars.
http://www.scientology.de/scnnews/press/eng/aug/96082101.htm

Lonnie Kliever is on the referral list of the scientology-run Cult
Awareness Network
http://www.cultawarenessnetwork.org/referrals.html

Claims that scientology is a religion:
http://www.theta.com/goodman/kliever1.htm

Kliever the copyright expert:
http://www.theta.com/copyright/kliever.htm

He is member/participant at Moon-linked organisations: New ERA, ICUS,
AWR and co-signed a "proud to know him" ad.

alliwannadoislive

ok ... ok ... um ... what was the question again ... ? ...

APOSTATES unreliable witnesses ... huh ?

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