King of Jordan on Charly Rose: WW3 in progress, Islam extremism is a generational conflict. --

by prologos 23 Replies latest social current

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    "...Islam extremism is a generational conflict..."

    That actually makes sense to me.

    Each successive generation of Islam is becoming more and more modern.

    Even though it's relatively younger than the other two Abrahamic faiths, it stands to reason that if it follows the overall pattern that they have (and I think it generally will), the more problematic scriptures in the Koran will eventually be viewed the same way comparable passages in the Torah or NT are viewed in mainstream Judaism or Christianity...

    ...i.e., less and less literal.

    I could be wrong.

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    But before we can understand what's happened to Judah and Jerusalem, let's look at the background of King Abdullah.

    How did he come to be part of the picture?

    To understand that we have to see the 1914-1918 Great war in its true setting or European, and not in the setting that the JWs (and others) place it as the first world war. Its true that this was affected many places in the world, but that was because during the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries, European powers had been busy trying to establish colonies in other countries. Many scholars argue that the 1914-1918 war was essentially another European war, part of series of wars that had been occurring for many centuries and which often brought change of ownership to the overseas colonies that European powers had established. Some argue, that this process is still occurring, and that we can view the USA-Russia altercations as part of the endless bickering as part of a process to establish a pecking order among the European (now including the USA) elites.

    At the end of the 1914-1918 war, peace treaties were negotiated which attempted to portion out the spoils of war among the (primarily) European victors. Europe was transformed in a process that is still affecting European politics:

    Look at this map (below) and think of the areas that are still part of world crisis points. Much of the pink areas, are territories formerly part of the Russian Empire and given up by the new Soviet government in the treaty of Brest-Litovsk (Not part of the Versailles negotiations)

    After the Central Powers launched Operation Faustschlag on the Eastern Front, the new Soviet Government of Russia signed the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk with Germany on 3 March 1918. This treaty ended the war between Russia and the Central powers and annexed 1,300,000 square miles (3,400,000 km 2 ) square miles of territory and 62 million people. This loss equated to one third of the Russian population, 25 per cent of their territory, around a third of the country's arable land, three-quarters of its coal and iron, a third of its factories (totalling 54 per cent of the nation's industrial capacity), and a quarter of its railroads.

    But our focus is on Western Asia. Here the British and French had the major say and carved up the territories of the former Ottomon empire. The Empire itself had collapsed during the war, with the centre transforming itself into Turkey. But most of the remainder was divided between Britain and France. France got the section that became Syria, and the British took Iraq and Palestine and established suzerainty over Egypt, Sudan and Iran.

    To rule their new territories, the British endeavoured to establish the local elites and King Abdullah's family was one of the elite families that gained a major benefit. So does anyone think that what he's saying is unusual for someone in his position. That's not to argue that he's wrong in what he says. I merely point out that there will be many people in the area, without the advantages of being one of the elite, that will disagree with him.

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    which gives the return of the survivors a slight legitimaticy for their re- occupation of part of the last land that they inhabited as a nation,

    Except that in this case, the Jews had last occupied that territory some 1900 years ago***.

    We can think of the complications that can be caused by a consideration of Australia. The white settlers in Australia argued that the "savages" that lived here had no legal right to the land and they were subsequently dispossessed. Not many years ago, the Australian High Court recognised that the original Australians DID HAVE A LEGAL OWNERSHIP TO THE LAND, after all, but they could not confront current ownership.

    In Palestine, descendents of the owners of the first century, claim they have a legal right to ownership and can dispossess contemporary owners.

    Do you wonder that this is a major problem?

    Do you wonder that after 100 years of confrontation between Europeans and Muslims, each succeeding generation becomes more hostile to the west? Do you wonder why young hot-heads, aware of the injustices burdening their spiritual brothers, become more radical?

    This is not a new problem, the problems go back more than 1000 years. The problems will still make life dangerous for the grand-children of today's new-born, because the Europeans do not get it.

    ------------------------------------------------------

    ***one small caveat - we do not know what the lowest level of people did at the time. Did they die somewhere else as refugees? Make new homes on some unused land somewhere? Or, did they give up their religion, left the phallus of the son(s) intact and re-enter the land, presenting as non-jewish? In that last case we would expect some genetic similarities between newly arrived Jews and the dispossessed peoples, now tagged as Palestineans. At least some genetic studies do show similarities. If that situation can be confirmed, then the Jewish/Palestinian problem can be see as brother attemtpting to dispossess brother:

    Comparison with the genetic heritage of non-Jewish populations.
    Palestinians
    Further information: Palestinian people#DNA and genetic studies

    Many genetic studies have demonstrated that most of the various Jewish ethnic divisions and the Palestinians and other Levantines, like theDruze [12] [13] [18] [38] and Bedouin, [12] [13] are genetically closer to each other than the Palestinians or European Jews are to non-Jewish Europeans or Africans. [12] [13] [96] One DNA study by Nebel and colleagues found genetic evidence in support of historical records that "part, or perhaps the majority" of Muslim Palestinians descend from "local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who had converted after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD". [96] They also found substantial genetic overlap between Muslim Palestinians and Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, though with some significant differences that might be explainable by the geographical isolation of the Jews and by immigration of Arab tribes in the first millennium. [96]

    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews

    Note: I've left wikipedia end-notes numbers intact, for the convenience of those who want to check sources.

  • prologos
    prologos

    The generation that rembers the Brest - Litovsk line is dead, the generation that remember the 1945 lines is almost gone too, nostalgia, longing for the old places* deadened. If someone would put up the maps of the incredibly shrinking germany, you could see the pain that all these expulsion caused, but at least, looking from afar there seem to be no mood, sentiment for righting the wrongs of that latest round in ethnic cleansing.

    If some sentiment like that could develop in the middle east.

    The king seems to be very pre-occupied with subduing the current, so near threat of ISIS, to him it looks like ww3. Charly Rose made him repeat that.

    * only those that have experienced being uprooted from their homeland can understand the feeling, like the attachment of the first nations everywhere to their land. The colonizers by contrast claim "just because you CAMPED in the area, does not give you title to the land". so:

    where do you draw the line? the movement in the sea of time?

  • Ruby456
    Ruby456

    Interesting how King Abdullah calls on tradition to say he is muslim and ISIS isn't and if he can back up what he is saying by what has been achieved in Jordan then I think he can inspire muslims even if he belongs to an elite group and has a privileged background.

    Mulsims are recognising that ISIS is in an ethical darkness and if they can then see that this is due to generational conflict that can lead to ww3 then muslims have something to mobilise themselves towards. King Abdullah looks and sounds quite charismatic doesn't he?

    edit: is he sunni or shia? sunni according to wiki

    and this is significant

    Nuclear plans for Jordan[edit]

    On 20 January 2007, King Abdullah revealed to Haaretz that Jordan has plans to develop nuclear power for internal energy purposes because unlike other countries in the region Jordan has almost no oil. [24] Jordan is one of the few non-petroleum producing nations in the region and is strategically dependent on oil from its neighbor, Iraq. Continuing civil unrest in Iraq puts Jordanian national and energy security at risk. Jordan's first nuclear power plant will be ready by 2015 and it will be located in Aqaba. There are more nuclear power plants planned in Karak and near the proposed Red Sea-Dead Sea project which will provide Jordan with all the much needed water resources it needs, it will also supply the shrinking Dead Sea and nuclear power plants with water. In turn, the nuclear power plants will desalinate the water and pump it to northern Jordan. (According to the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, Jordan is one of the poorest countries in terms of water resources. [25] )

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    This is not a new problem, the problems go back more than 1000 years - yes indeed. Islam has been shedding blood on and off since its birth. The prophet Muhammad turned the Mecca into a strict monoculture in a matter of decades - I guess he didn't 'value diversity' or 'embrace multiculturalism'

  • Ruby456
    Ruby456

    lol go away luhe.

    Islam is a religion of peace you stirrer - lol - But seriously and at least this is how traditonal Islam can be painted while the innovations that the Jihadist community are advertising are actually forbidden in Islam because they are innovations, in fact democraticised innovations. king Abdullah can make strong arguments from Islam to support traditional understandings of Islam. (He also has a nice mouth)

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    Ruby - it's sometimes good to take out life's frustrations on the keyboard.

    BTW I think the king's sunni, most of the Jordanian pop. is.

  • Ruby456
    Ruby456

    yes he is sunni - so I guess this would explain Obama's reluctance to be hasty yet aware of similar strategic interests - good enough reasons to want stability but resolution too

  • Ruby456
    Ruby456

    clarification to post 447 above

    Instead of this

    Mulsims are recognising that ISIS is in an ethical darkness and if they can then see that this is due to generational conflict that can lead to ww3 then muslims have something to mobilise themselves towards. King Abdullah looks and sounds quite charismatic doesn't he?

    the sentence should read

    Mulsims are recognising that ISIS is in an ethical darkness and if they can then see that this is due to generational conflict that can lead to ww3 then muslims have something to mobilise themselves towards preventing. King Abdullah looks and sounds quite charismatic doesn't he?

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