What does the average Witness know?

by Grunt 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Billygoat

  Concerned Mama,

  I love the fact that you're concerned and I love the fact that you haven't told your daughter that she can't see her JW boyfriend. You and your daughter could be the very thing to get this young man to a thinking point. He's still young, so things could change, but Sirona pretty much packed it into a nutshell with this:

  You have NO ambition and that is encouraged.

  Most children are naturally ambitious and curious. It is the way God made us. You and other good parents nurture that curiosity and ambition. You know it is what will give your child an edge in education, which will give your child an edge in adulthood. But when you grow up as a JW, your natural curiosity and ambition is totally squelched when we are very young. We don't even realize it's missing once we hit adolescence. Your daughter's boyfriend doesn't understand the fuss because he doesn't know there is anything to fuss about. His future is mapped out for him right?

  My only suggestion would be to continue loving him unconditionally and when he's with you, teach him to THINK. Ask him LOTS of questions and get his viewpoint. Perhaps those little lessons on independent thought with you, will be enough to save him from this cult when he becomes an adult.

  Andi
• 

  blacksheep

  Since true, independent research of the organization is not encouraged, most JW’s would not run across this information, or have the emotional ability to process it objectively if they did.

  I was raised as a witness and left it in my early 20s (and, was fortunate to have gone to college as well, since, as my mother put it “there was nothing to be done with me": I wasn’t married, wasn’t pioneering, a full-time secular job seemed to be too threatening-- too much association with wordlings--so a local university where I could live at home seemed an innocuous transition, sort of an extension of high school...until I could marry a JW and settle down.

  I think having this educational exposure was quite helpful in help me view the JWs and their belief systems more critically and objectively. That bolstered my gut instincts that something was very wrong with the organization.

  After having been exposed to more objective thinking/views, it quite baffles me to see how JWs can live their lives in such intellectual and emotional bondage. How they can say that are “free” (right, from “holiday hype”, from “blinding” doctrinal inaccuracies…right, that’s true “freedom”).

  I’ve come to believe that belonging to this org fulfills certain voids in some people. Life “on the outside” is simply too difficult to fathom, and esp for the old-timers (like my mom), it would be too much of shock to attempt to change their whole manner of thinking. So they don’t. They "remain faithful." Oddly, my father, who is a non-believer, has developed a sort of perverse notion that my mother’s “faithfulness” and belief system represents “strength.” I personally think the reverse is true.
• 

  concerned mama

  Thank you all of you. What you say makes so much sense, and I do think that what Joeshmoe says is likey exactly how he thinks....oh, and lacking in ambition is right! As it said so often on this board, it is hard for worldly people to understand.
  To pull it back to the topic, it seems that the average JW may hear things, but not want to know them. Their social isolation restricts what they hear, but they don't believe it anyway!!! Maybe they have to be in the right place in their lives so that it doesn't just roll off their back. Like I said, it sure puzzles me!
  Andi, I will email you later.
• 

  waiting

  Hi Bona Dea - nice to meet you and........what that elder said about the Malawi/Mexico thing was a crock!

  8. Does the average - longtime - witness know that while he wrote letters to the Malawi government to state his plea to stop the slaughter of Jehovah's Witnesses for not buying a $.25 political card.......elders in Mexico wrote to the Society for guidance on how to approach their legal, ethical, problem.

  I asked Brother Elder about this. You would not believe his response. "Well, I guess all the first century christians should've been angry at Peter for denying Christ."

  It doesn't even fit the discussion! Peter denied Christ (if you go along with the account) out of fear of man. Jesus forsaw this action - when Peter understood what he'd done - he wept bitterly - and this was only hours later. Peter also never did it again. This was also a private action on Peter's part.

  The GB TOLD all Mexican jw's that they could continue to join the military and then bribe their way out of active duty.

  The GB encouraged jw's worldwide to write letters to the Malawian government to stop the slaughter of jw's in that country....which would bring one to conclude that they encouraged the Malawi brothers to "continue putting up the fine fight for their faith" because the WT sure did run some articles on those dying, raped, families. Showing what "true Christians" would do for Jehovah....even if it was only a $.25 political card. True Christians would "keep free from the world."

  But it was ok for Mexican Christians to join the military and bribe their way out. A crock! A cruel joke on murdered families in Malawi. I can't imagine how one of those mothers or fathers would feel after reading Crisis of Conscience and realize that the WTBTS set them up to let their kids be killed.

  To me - this was the turning point of hypocrisy for the WTBTS. People were KILLED for a quarter.

  waiting
• 

  SPAZnik

  We are in 237 lands.

  Well in THAT case...sign me up.

  LOL.

  SPAZ
• 

  Preston

  ...Okay, let me role-play as a witness here...

  1. Do they know that Russell got a lot of dates from the measurements of pyramids, including 1914? I wonder if the average Witness knows where he is buried, or that he has a pyramid on his grave?

  The average witness will have seen possibly a picture in the Proclaimer's book or elsewhere of a pyramid, and know that it was associated with some prior teaching that they don't teach anymore.. Most witnesses don't know and probably don't even care where Russell's buried.

  2. Does the average witness know that the Society teaches that Christ is not their mediator? Most I have talked to don't but it has been printed a lot of different places at a lot of different times. I would like to know just how many are really aware of it or its implications.

  The majority of JW's believe the there is only one mediator between God and man, namley Christ. I doubt the majority think of the governing body as a mediator despite it's claim as a spiritual channel between God and man...

  3. Does the average "publisher" realize that the organization decided to make the publications available for "donations" to avoid taxes? That it was done AFTER having been involved in a court case as a legal "friend" to Jimmy Swaggart while he fought those taxes, or that they still charge for the publications in other places with different tax laws? Places where money is much more scarce?

  Wha...? The average witness would be puzzled by this statement.

  4. Could the average Witness know about all the components of blood being legal or about material made from cow's blood being approved in some cases by the Organization? I hope they know, it means thier lives and the lives of their loved ones. I tried to tell my father this and he shook his head, "Son, we don't take blood, any blood at all!" He doesn't know almost all blood parts are ok, and could die as a result. I wish he knew.

  I think most of them know that they will not be disfellowshipped for taking one of the legal blood components, but I think most of them refuse all blood because nothing makes them feel more aware that they're doing the right thing than by one-uping the society.

  5. Are most of the members of the congregation aware of the flip-flops of the past on everything from all Witnesses being ministers, refusing alternative service, the changed understands on what fornication was, the uproar and divorces caused over the Organization's changed views on oral sex, the change saying transplants are ok from taking transplants being cannibalism? If they do know, I wonder if they have thought about how many lives were ruined by the "old" views and of the humiliation of the people because of them?

  I think the majority of JW's don't really care about any flip flops in doctrine. They don't have time to delve into any historical or theological analysis of the changes in doctrine. They're too busy keeping in mind "the more important things", namely study, mettings, and service.

  6. Do you think the big change on "This Generation" impacted the regular people who make up the organization very hard? Do they know about all the changes in ages to support it before it was dropped? How the ages of the "generation" were stretched before it was dropped? Did they think about it and just how enormous that change was in relation to all the statements they had made about it? Or did they just gulp and swallow it all like castor oil and refuse to think about it?

  I was still an active JW when we studied the article, every single JW I knew didn't care. I think the majority of people were slightly disappointed but prepared for the "long haul" that the great tribulation would arrive farther into the future. After all, this is the only thing that so many JW's know, how can any well-meaning JW think that a change in doctrine is a robbing of the proverbial "security blanket"".

  7. Do you think most Witnesses have lost loved ones to "apostasy" seen young relatives walk away, and lost their confidence in the Watchtower Society as being the TRUTH, the only ones with the truth?

  I don't know how many JW' s have seen relatives "walk away", slip into "apostasy", or lose trust in the WBTS. I'm positive it's the majority. If anything, I think any so-called trial of their faith only makes the majority feel like they're in the right. An elder once told me not to associate with JW's that didn't have any problems, and who were always happy because "Satan already had them". It's sad when misery seems to be a pre-requisite to be a JW, that the more unhappy you were, the more God liked you. If that's how God treats his faithful worshippers, then I would imagine that God would expect us to think highly of him [8>]
• 

  Grunt

  Thanks to all of you who responded and who took the time to really think about what the average witness knows. CPiolo, you had posted almost the identical post, same theme anyway only with more information. As with this post, you got some great responses, thanks for the link, I enjoyed it. It does me a lot of good to read the statements of people like all of you, it teaches me first of all (I had forgotten about the Mexican/Malawi card and how that was handled) and it makes me feel better about being a part of the TYPE of person who leaves. There is a genuine compassion here, a real concern for others that the cult known as Jehovah's Witnesses would do well to mimic. All of you for have the courage of your convictions, the courage to stand and face an authority figure that is capable of hurting you deeply and still say, simply "no." To me the pressure that many of you have borne and are bearing while refusing to call a lie the truth is heroic. Many times after reading posts on this board I feel honored to be counted among such a group. You think, you research, you respond honestly, intelligently and with integrity, and you care about others and show it. You are all that the Tower pretends its members are. They lost their best and brightest when you and others like you walked away.
• 

  waiting

  Howdy Preston,

  4. Could the average Witness know about all the components of blood being legal or about material made from cow's blood being approved in some cases by the Organization? I hope they know, it means thier lives and the lives of their loved ones. I tried to tell my father this and he shook his head, "Son, we don't take blood, any blood at all!" He doesn't know almost all blood parts are ok, and could die as a result. I wish he knew.

  I think most of them know that they will not be disfellowshipped for taking one of the legal blood components, but I think most of them refuse all blood because nothing makes them feel more aware that they're doing the right thing than by one-uping the society.

  Hadn't thought about THAT one - but it's true. "I'm faithful." - says it all. However, (and there always is one) another reason why some stay with the No Blood stance is that it's just too confusing - and much easier to just go with the little logo on the No Blood Card. Well, the old card now. Much easier than thinking about all the ins & outs of what's New Light this month.

  ((((((((((((((Grunt))))))))))))))))) What compliments!

  waiting
• 

  Realist

  @ concerned mama:
  i have been in a similar situation. my ex girlfriend is a witness. the amazing thing is that she is a biology major in college. although she is rather bright and interested in understanding many things she does not question (or at least doesn't admit it) the watchtower teachings. she started the relationship but broke it up after half a year because of bad conscience (being with a non witness is apparently considered a sin). i wish i could help her see the real truth about the organization but i guess as long as the person is not ready one can do nothing for them.
  i hope in your case the boy is not forced to leave your daughter eventually.

  good luck,

  realist
• 

  In_between_days

  Sirona,

  . That the New World Translation is the most accurate translation of the bible in the world. In actual fact, it is laughed at by the scholars and the people who translated it have changed things to match their 'theology'

  Do you have any examples where I would find information of scholars who have documented this? I would really appreciate it, I have a freind who said that "Scholars even say, it's the most accurately translated bible in the world". I'd like to show this person where it says otherwise.