Bitcoins - anyone here mining?

by Jim_TX 48 Replies latest social current

  • Simon
    Simon

    Yes, the $20 fluctuates in real global value but never while you're in a queue at a coffee shop. I still believe retailers only accept it to get on the news as a form of cheap publicity. The amount they take in revenue is a miniscule amount and they cash it out straight away - it's more of a "why not" option for them IMO. The advertising would cost more.

    I actually believe there are lots of lies told about bitcoin - it's reliability and it's anonymity. Take for instance the identity of wallets - once you link an identity to a wallet then you can see ALL the transactions done with it. Really? People want that? The public have been asking to have their purchases made public to all and sundry? The anonimity that the drug dealers and gambling sites like only work when it's small and unregulated, not when KYC and AML compliance are factored in.

    These are where I think the majority of people involved in BitCoin are simply dishonest about what it is and how it works and what problem it's suppsed to solve. Really, the only problem it does solve is "how can we also get to act as financial middlemen and take a slice of thew lucrative payment pie". It really offers very, very little to consumers which is why consumers are not using it and won't until it changes dramatically.

    Once you strip away the hype and speculation it's really not that compelling as a payment system - most efforts underway are trying to turn it into a copy of existing systems or add it into existing processes (really, adding another layer will make things cheaper and more efficient?).

    Ultimately, it comes down to trust. We're supposed to 'trust' some unknown people who may or may not hold the keys to all the currency vs the governments and financial systems. Yes, these have their faults but the current systems were put in place as they are because of how banking used to work in the past and the governments have a vested interest in keeping their currency systems operating.

  • Simon
    Simon

    Yes, I'm still bearish on BitCoin :)

  • besty
    besty

    @jwfacts - Can the transactional side be separated from the currency, or is the currency required for the payments to take affect?

    yes - innovation on the blockchain (the underlying ledger) is where this will happen - for example https://www.ethereum.org/ is worth scanning through to get an idea..

  • besty
    besty

    @simon - a man persuaded against his will is of the same opinion still - Dale Carnegie I believe.

    I agree with you - there probably are a lot of shysters attracted to BTC for all the wrong reasons. We treat that as background noise in much the same way as the Internet was all porn and gambling and Nigerian scams in the early days - or remember how spam was going to kill email? Bad actors and problems will always exist - the trick is to separate the noise from the signal.

    BTC is more pseudonymous than anonymous. KYC and AML and other compliance is essential.

    BTC will achieve the value people ascribe to it, same as fiat does today. Lets check back in 5 years as neither your or I or anyone else really knows how this is going to play out. My sense is that digital currency is here to stay.

  • jgnat
  • Simon
    Simon

    My sense is that digital currency is here to stay.

    I agree, but I don't think BitCoin as it currently exists is 'it' - no doubt it will serve as a learning excercise for something else or will need to be morphed into something to follow.

    I think the reason most BitCoin proponents compare it to the early days of the internet is because they internet and associated businesses are worth a lot of money now and that's part of the hype - "you'd better buy them or else you'll miss out and they'll be worth $10m each".

    Seems like a no-brainer that KYC and AML need to exist for it to be successful but then strange that so many BTC proponents don't want to see any legislation applied and campaign against it.

    It's these mixed messages and contradictions that need to be resolved for mainstream acceptance IMO.

  • tootired2care
    tootired2care

    @Simon - I actually believe there are lots of lies told about bitcoin - it's reliability and it's anonymity. Take for instance the identity of wallets - once you link an identity to a wallet then you can see ALL the transactions done with it. Really? People want that?

    I tend to disagree. For all intensive purposes it's still pretty anonymous, it would be exceedingly difficult to determine any specific details about someone from bitcoin transactions that are on the global ledger (all btc transactions are). Additionaly, you can create as many wallets as you need, so that one specific wallet doesn't have too much activity to warrant a forensic inspection. It's not perfect, but for for the person who wants to perform an occasional transaction, it's a pretty decent solution IMHO. In fact it's far better than having a middle man like PayPal who actually does have your identity, and willingly hands over your transasction history to the government, and marketing companies for profit while charging very hefty fees for large transactions.

    Anyone can see the flow of Bitcoins from address to address (see first image). Alone, this information can't identify anyone because the addresses are just random numbers. However, if any of the addresses in a transaction's past or future can be tied to an actual identity, it might be possible to work from that point and guess who may owns all of the other addresses. This identity information might come from network analysis, surveillance, or just Googling the address. The officially-encouraged practice of using a new address for every transaction is designed to make this attack more difficult.

    https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Anonymity

  • Simon
    Simon

    if any of the addresses in a transaction's past or future can be tied to an actual identity, it might be possible to work from that point and guess who may owns all of the other addresses. This identity information might come from network analysis, surveillance, or just Googling the address. The officially-encouraged practice of using a new address for every transaction is designed to make this attack more difficult.

    I always take "it might be possible" to mean "this is definitely going to happen at some point".

    Again, the answers are things like "oh, jave multiple wallets". This sort of complexity just isn't going to work for the majority of people and it will be a feeding frenzy for scammers, hackers etc...

    Who would ever want to have all their money available for transfer online with no trace of where it's gone and no way to get it back.

    "Oh", the BitCoiners will say, "you only keep money you want to spend ... like with a cash wallet, so this can't happen"

    Well, I don't want all the cash in my wallet stolen either but now I need to convert the fiat money I can already spend into BitCoint just to spend it and then the retailer will convert it back into fiat ... and somehow this will all be cheaper than the current systems, even though there are now extra steps involved. Oh, and consumers won't use it without protections against rogue transactions and non-delivered goods ... so chargebacks, therefore infrastructure and charges ... it's all a house of cards with convenient answers that contradict other claims.

    BitCoin always makes me think of this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DT7bX-B1Mg

    "Aaaaand ... it's gone"

  • tootired2care
    tootired2care

    I agree you do have a good point that BTC is not a good tool for the masses. I guess you could say that in its current state, It's a great economical trading tool for the technically savvy folks of society. I'm okay with that.

  • Simon
    Simon

    BitCoin is the 'usenet' of currency - everyone thought it was a future and it was amazing in it's day ... now it's practically forgotten.

    What's not clear with BitCoin is exactly what problems it's trying to solve and how specifically it will solve them.

    Lots of grand claims about feeding the poor but not much detail about how ...

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