Richard Dawkins defends “mild pedophilia,” says it does not cause “lasting harm”

by chrisuk 320 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I have to fully agree with Outlaw on his post number 23874. Dawkins is minimizing the crime. It may not have been written as a crime in those days, but it was hidden because the perpetrators knew others would see it as wrong. Further, his statements suggest a tone of "Just get over it" to any of his fellow victims if they disagree.

    Again, he is welcome to his opinions but he misspoke here. The general idea that it was misunderstood and kept in the dark is there, so I can see someone saying that he personally let it go as "mild."

    And I hate to go there, but I find agreement with or defense of Dawkins here to be similar to Watchtower sweeping this crime under the rug. If someone committed what Dawkins called "mild pedophilia" in the past, it is possible they did huge damage to a child and it is highly likely they escalated their behavior later.

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    “I am very conscious that you can’t condemn people of an earlier era by the standards of ours. Just as we don’t look back at the 18th and 19th centuries and condemn people for racism in the same way as we would condemn a modern person for racism, I look back a few decades to my childhood and see things like caning, like mild pedophilia, and can’t find it in me to condemn it by the same standards as I or anyone would today ,”

    The Problem I see is not the mild pedophilia question as much as his judgment ...."you can't condemn people of an earlier era by the standard of ours." Is he out of his mind??? Of course we condemn people from an earlier era. How far back do we go......All the way back to reported history......Rape, child abuse, slavery, slave abuse, murder, or any other cause of human on human abuse (animal abuse as well) has been condemned.......we can put the condemnation in a historical context but we can't apply the standards of this era?

    … I cannot know for certain that my companions’ experiences with the same teacher were are brief as mine, and theirs may have been recurrent where mine was not. That’s why I said only “I don’t think he did any of us lasting damage”. We discussed it among ourselves on many occasions, especially after his suicide, and there was indeed general agreement that his gassing himself was far more upsetting than his sexual depredations had been. If I am wrong about any particular individual; if any of my companions really was traumatized by the abuse long after it happened; if, perhaps it happened many times and amounted to more than the single disagreeable but brief fondling that I endured, I apologise.

    His stupidity is unrelenting on this matter! Let's see.........hmmmmm first off the guy was a teacher entrusted with the welfare of children.....he was an authority figure who was more then likely supported, at least in principle' by the child's parents and by his peers. He was also a repeat offender. But Dawkins doesn't know if he went beyond 'mild' pedophilia. I am sure if Dawkins had been turned over his desk for a 'go' or forced to his knees for something else he would have shouted it from the roof..........Dawkins has no idea how much or how long this pedo was into this practice. Dawkins doesn't know if it went further.

    No it was 'brief foundling'...........then he gassed himself! Your right Mr. Dawkins there's nothing to see here, you never heard that anyone was traumatized by the abuse (finally he calls it what it was....... abuse). So all is well by the standards of that era.

    Mr. Dawkins is a prominent person of some considerable stature. Most of us Ex JW's don't always accept every damn thing someone of stature gets to say.

  • abbasgreta
    abbasgreta

    "I'll wait for Jesus to come, but I'll make sure he's wearing a condom". Zeusrocks. Sure you suffered no lasting harm.

  • ZeusRocks
    ZeusRocks

    Absolutely sure abbasgreta. I had a warped sarcastic sense of humour prior to being molested and I continue to have one to this day.

  • Magnum
    Magnum

    Giordano: ...."you can't condemn people of an earlier era by the standard of ours." Is he out of his mind??? Of course we condemn people from an earlier era. How far back do we go......All the way back to reported history......Rape, child abuse, slavery, slave abuse, murder, or any other cause of human on human abuse (animal abuse as well) has been condemned.......we can put the condemnation in a historical context but we can't apply the standards of this era?

    What you wrote is illogical. You quote Dawkins as saying "you can't condemn people of an earlier era by the standard of ours." You then wrote "Of course we can condemn people from an earlier era." That's not what Dawkins said. He didn't say that we can't "condemn people from an earlier era", he said we "can't condemn people of an earlier era by the standard of ours." And I agree with that. Just consider something like drunk driving. There has been so much education against it and awareness of it in the last few years that I could condemn somebody more today for causing a death due to drunk driving than I could thirty or forty years ago. That doesn't mean I'm minimizing the seriousness of it.

    Mr. Dawkins is a prominent person of some considerable stature. Most of us JW's don't always accept every damn thing someone of stature gets to say.

    Another problem with logic. That's a strawman argument. You just introduced a separate issue are attacking it rather than the issue at hand. Nobody has even remotely indicated that anybody should accept what Dawkins says because of any "stature" that he might have. I personally think he's very intelligent, but I'm not intimidated by his intellect and knowledge even in the slightest way and certainly don't automatically accept what he says. I've read some of his books and don't agree with all his arguments. Also, I think he comes across as being arrogant at times.

    I just know what he is quoted as saying in the article referred to in this thread, and I don't get from what it what some others are getting.

    Also, I will repeat what I posted above:

    The title of the article (and thus the title of the thread) misrepresents Dawkins. The title is: Richard Dawkins defends “mild pedophilia,” says it does not cause “lasting harm”. What the title indicates is untrue. What Dawkins actually said was:“I don’t think he did any of us lasting harm (bold and italics mine). ” That’s far different from what the title says he said. The title indciates that he generalized and said that “mild pedophilia” didn’t cause any lasting harm (to anyone). If I said that the disease didn’t affect me, and someone says that I said that the disease has no effect on humans, then that person would be either lacking in comprehension or deliberately misrepresenting me.

    I'm sticking with fact and logic. Fact: Dawkins said "I don't think he did any of us any lasting harm." Fact: That's not the same as saying it doesn't cause lasting harm (in general).

  • cultBgone
    cultBgone

    All arguments aside...

    No one who has been abused in any fashion can possibly know whether it affected them adversely or not. Everything that happens to us makes an imprint on our brain, therefore we can have no idea of who we might have become had the abuse not happened.

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    My response was to his compete sentence ...."you can't condemn people of an earlier era by the standard of ours." My answer was we could and do.

    More to the point child protection from sexual abuse may be the very same standards of the era Dawkin's was referencing.

    Were there no child abuse laws back in Mr. Dawkin's day?

    "And I agree with that. Just consider something like drunk driving. There has been so much education against it and awareness of it in the last few years that I could condemn somebody more today for causing a death due to drunk driving than I could thirty or forty years ago. That doesn't mean I'm minimizing the seriousness of it."

    So you would condemn somebody more today for death due to drunk driving? Sorry my friend the law found people just as guilty of killing someone thirty to forty years ago, fifty to sixty years ago. The standards of that era were similar. The only thing to change is that there is more awareness and police crackdowns on suspected or actual drunk drivers today.

    However the argument is not germane to this discussion.

  • minimus
    minimus

    "Mild pedophilia" is the problem here. There's no such thing.

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    What I get from all this ageist squabbling, is that almost all of us are descended from abusive matings in the middle ages when most girls were married off at 12.

    HB

  • sarahsmile
    sarahsmile

    Maybe not forty years ago.

    If an adult rubbed up against another adult in a sexual manner one time. Here in some states it is considered a mild sex offense and could get someone,adult, marked for life as a number 1 sex offender. Children are more protected but some can be marked fir life for a one time occurrence.

    Journalist writes about mild paedophile I believe they are referring to the type of offense. At any rate once again I feel like the writer like the WT slanted Dawkins interview for hype.

    For Lurkers and Jehovahs Witnesses:

    I am sure you think our heavy disagreements are awful. Please consider as a Jehovahs Witness that YOU can not speak your mind in constant fear of getting place on public or private reproof. Worse yet kicked out because of how you might offended someone.

    My point and guess what! We can disagree and occasionally get by with some mudd slinging here!

    Why because people have rights to disagree and move on! Without carrying grudges. Get over it with out elders interferring!

    Your rights as a practicing Jehovah's Witnesses do not teach this concept.

    Your taught to "love" anyone who disagrees! Shun them! Ignore them! They will go away! That is not reality!

    This forum is a prime example that yes people diagree and some time sling mud but they can move on and be okay then write to each other in the NEXT topic. You will notice this by reading future topics!

    I am sure some JW do not understand this yet! Sometimes Jehovahs Witnesses can learn just by the debates!

    As far as Dawkins, I do not want to debate over his personal childhood experiences. I am sure he left his mark in the future college psychology books.

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