99.9% Of a People Who Believe In Evolution Don't Understand It.

by Space Madness 89 Replies latest jw friends

  • Space Madness
    Space Madness

    I never believed in evolution as I thought it didn't make sense and that what was proposed was simply impossible. How could an environment alter an organism's DNA? How could bacteria resist antibiotics if they can't "think"? After taking a college biology course, it turns out my suspicions were correct. I learned that biologist have a different idea of evolution than the lay person that claims to know what evolution is. Here are some excerpts from the textbook we used for this class:

    "Because most species have become more complex over life’s long evolutionary history, many people erroneously believe that natural selection leads to ever more “perfect” organisms or that evolution works toward some long-term goal. Explanations that use the words need or in order to typically reflect this mis- conception. For example, a person might say, “The beaks in figure 11.8 grew because the finches needed to eat the large, tough seeds” or “The beaks grew in order to give the finches the ability to eat the largest seeds.”

    Both explanations are incorrect because evolution does not have a goal. How could it? No known mechanism allows the environment to tell DNA how to mutate and generate the alleles needed to confront future conditions. Nor does natural selection strive for perfection; if it did, the vast majority of species in life’s history would still exist. Instead, most are extinct."

    As you can see biologist do not believe organisms evolve to adapt to their environment. That is simply impossible. I've heard people on this site make that argument many times, it's not true. Another example:

    A change in an organism’s DNA sequence introduces a new allele to a population. The new variant may be harmful, neutral, or beneficial, depending on how the mutation affects the sequence of the encoded protein.

    Mutations are the raw material for evolution because genes contribute to phenotypes, and natural selection acts on phenotypes. For example, random mutations in bacterial DNA may change the shapes of key proteins in the cell’s ribosomes or cell wall. Exposure to antibiotics selects for some of the new phenotypes if they happen to make the cell resistant to the drug. In that case, the mutations will pass to the next generation.

    A common misconception is that a mutation produces a novel adaptation precisely when a population “needs” it to confront a new environmental challenge. For example, many people mistakenly believe that antibiotics create resistance; that is, that resistance arises in bacteria in response to expo- sure to the drugs.

    In reality, genes do not “know” when to mutate; the chance that a mutation will occur is independent of whether a new phenotype would benefit the organism. The only way an- tibiotic resistance arises is if some bacteria happen to have a mutation that confers antibiotic resistance before exposure to the drug. The drug creates a situation in which these variants can flourish. That trait will then become more common within the population by natural selection. If no bacteria start out resistant, the drug kills the entire population. "

    Bacterial resistance to antibiotics is the most used example as proof of evolution. As we can see however, bacteria cannot become resistance to antibiotics. At it's core evolution is random genetic mutations. There is no adaptation to environments, survival of the fittest, or bacterial resistance. The "evolution" taught by biologist makes a lot more sense as oppose to the fairy tale "evolution" that many people on this site and celeberties such as Dawkins believe in.

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    You're committing a very strange error here. It's difficult for me to unravel this. I'm curious: in your words, why does the use of antibiotics correspond to a rise in antibiotic-resistant bacteria, or is that just a coincidence?

  • Space Madness
    Space Madness

    Antibiotic resistance bacteria already exist prior to the creation of an antibiotic drug. Antibiotic drugs works by targeting the structure of a bacteria's membrane protein or enzyme. Random mutations change the structure of some bacteria causing the drug to be ineffective. (This change occur before the antibiotic is ever used) The number of antibiotic resistance bacteria rise because all the bacteria that are not mutated are killed by the drug.

  • GrreatTeacher
    GrreatTeacher

    "The only way that antibiotic resistance arises is if some bacteria happen to have a mutation that confers antibiotic resistance before exposure to the drug."

    This is the quote from your textbook which clearly states that antibiotic resistance is a real phenomenon.

    Its merely stating that the antibiotics only allow for survival of the bacteria that are immune to its effect. This is clearly differentiating this from the misunderstanding that bacteria mutate in response to antibiotics. They don't.

    This is natural selection. If they have the right mutation, they outlive the antibiotics and then can only reproduce other bacteria like themselves. The old strains of bacteria are gradually replaced in the population by the new antibiotic resistant ones.

    The text passages are mainly describing how antibiotic resistance occurs which is not reactive to anything in the environment, like antibiotics, but passive in that only the bacteria that can survive the antibiotic will survive the antibiotic. It is not questioning the existence of antibiotic resistance.

  • GrreatTeacher
    GrreatTeacher

    The adaptation to environments is on a species level, not an individual level. So, yes it is "a thing" as is survival of the fittest.

    I think you are confusing the individual organism level with the "population" level or species as a whole.

  • Space Madness
    Space Madness

    Species can't adapt to their environment because as the text state: "No known mechanism allows the environment to tell DNA how to mutate... ". This means it's literally impossible for a species to adapt to an environment as you claim. Feel free to tell how you believe it is possible for DNA to know the environment and more importantly how does it make changes to adapt?

  • konceptual99
    konceptual99

    Of course DNA does not make a concious decision about how to change to be better suited to an environment. That's not what natural selection is. Not only that, but natural selection is only one way that organisms evolve. I suggest you read one or two of the best books on how evolution works and understand what is really meant by natural selection.

    "The Greatest Show on Earth", "Your Inner Fish" and "Why Evolution is True" were pivitol books for me.

  • Space Madness
    Space Madness

    Natural selection is definitely not the only way organisms evolve. Organisms can evolve through mutation, non random mating, gene flow, and genetic drift. I don't really see the point of me reading basic commercial books on evolution when I'm taking in depth college courses on the subject. Also can you define natural selection for me? im not sure the books you mention have the same definition as biologist.

  • NAVYTOWN
    NAVYTOWN

    99.9% of people who believe in gravity don't understand it.

  • GrreatTeacher
    GrreatTeacher

    No known mechanism allows the environment to tell the DNA how to mutate.

    That does NOT mean that it's literally impossible for a species to adapt to the environment as you claim. The environment does not TELL the DNA how to mutate, it's not a reactive process.

    It's the other way around. DNA mutations occur passively before any antibiotic exposure. When these mutations allow the organism (bacteria) to survive the onslaught of the antibiotics then they survive to reproduce other antibiotic resistant bacteria which is natural selection.

    In this way, organism by organism the species as a whole (the population) has adapted to the antibiotic rich environment. This is true. Its just that the mutations occur not after exposure, but before and are then selected for by the presence of the antibiotic.

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