Challenge to Athiests - is Religion a Pox on Mankind?

by jgnat 169 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Don't teach religion in public institutions, unless perhaps it is a comparative religions class. That is enforceable and fair. What a parent teaches in their own home is their affair.

    A agree that fundamental religion, given real power, can be dangerous. Karen Armstrong points out, however, that when fundamentalists do gain real power, they must temper their dogmatism with the practicalities. They become less fundamentalist. Take Iraq, for instance. The clerics have taken over and they are quietly allying with Israel. Because it makes political sense.

    There is no harm in telling fantastic tales, fables and fantasies to children. Shall we sacrifice the idol, Grinch, on the altar of rationalism?

    Kate, be more than an armchair critic. Why do you agree?

  • Qcmbr
    Qcmbr

    Laika - while I'm not a lawmaker these would be my markers:

    1 - RE would not be mandatory and where taught it would have to be taught by a secular teacher (otherwise conflict of interest.)

    2 - No school allowed as a faith school

    3 - Critical thinking and philosophy taught earlier

    4 - Religion considered as a negative factor in child custody, medical and child welfare cases.

    5 - Where a child is taught religion in the home it would be a legal right to sue for emotional damages, once an adult, against both the church and family where teachings of said religion can be proven to have caused distress, fear and/or physical or mental harm.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    laika, in my "best defence" for the existence of God, I suggested that we may have a god circuit, an internal voice, apparently separate from ourselves.

    Appearance and reality, of course, can be different things.

    My Schizophrenic son, bless him, his voices are apparently external and hostile. When he has tried to exclude all external stimuli, the voices have emanated from his unplugged computer or the air vents. Terrifying. He has asked me how they can be made up in his mind when they are obviously emanating from such external sources? Reality is such a tenuous thing for my young man.

  • Qcmbr
    Qcmbr

    jgnat - telling fantastical tales should never cease - that is fun and a brilliant way to teach moral or social lessons. Its when it is presentd as fact and of greater worth than actual knowledge that it becomes bad. I was taught in my home that the earth was 6000 years old despite what I was learning at school and so I spent a large part of my geography lessons arguing against my teacher who was simply trying to educate me.

  • LisaRose
    LisaRose

    Everyone is allowed to choose when they are older, even in a destructive cult like the JWs, many leave when they become adults. Even with massive proselytizing, the dubs have a very low growth rate, I believe eventually they will go into the negative, as their particular brand of religion does not work.

    Making it illegal to teach religion is not going to happen, at least not in the US. So that's a non starter, too many people believe in God, and since the constitution guarantees religious freedom, you will never be able to do that. I don't even think that should be the goal.

    If you look a religion as a whole, it has already changed, as society changed. It is an institution, and institutions do not change over night. Slavery was once acceptable in society and in religion, but no more. I believe it will continue to change. A person from 200 years ago would not recognize todays religions. The Amish religion refused to change, and they still exist, but on a very limited level, they will never be relevant. I think the JWs will be the same.

    I think most people need some kind of religion. There are parts of the bible that I believe still works, l like the fruitages of the spirit; love, joy, peace, long suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self control. These are things that cannot really be taught in schools. If a church focused on that, and not the ridiculous rules and dogma, then they can be relevant. That is what I think has to happen. The schools need to teach reality, and the church needs to teach spirituality, not outdated rules that do not work in today's society.

    Maybe someday we can do away with religion all together, but we are not there yet. It's like ripping away a security blanket, and giving people nothing to replace it with. Atheism may be reality, but it cannot keep you warm at night, for now, for most people.

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    Kate, be more than an armchair critic. Why do you agree?-jgnat

    Apologies, not really up for heavy debate today. Had a bad phone call. I am enjoying the read and wanted to take sides. I may express more soon. I will try.

    Kate xx

  • Laika
    Laika

    Interesting Jgnat. I'm not schizophrenic and I still find reality a tenuous thing for me. Certainty worries me, I don't think I've been certain of anything since I left the JWs, at least not for long. (Edit: not that I'm comparing my problems to your son's btw!)

  • Qcmbr
    Qcmbr

    Lisa - the most dangerous and warlike country at the moment is America and the excuse is often based upon religious principles. Why oh why would we not want to legislate against this ? People are dying as we speak because of religion.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

  • cofty
    cofty

    Just got in from work and enjoying reading the discussion.

    Jgnat would it be accurate to say that you take encouragement from a sort of "benevolent hypocrisy"? In other words very few people really live as if they believe their holy books, whatever they may claim to the contrary.

  • Comatose
    Comatose

    The mere thought that 2 people who love each other would be "banned" from marriage because someone's OPINION is that "god hates fags" makes my blood boil. If people want or think they need religion in their OWN personal lives fine. But, religion should have absolutely NO place in a modern societies laws and policies. Fundamentalists are VERY dangerous in that they do make laws and impose their view of god on other people.

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