I'll Take Your Literature if You Take Mine

by VM44 12 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • VM44
    VM44

    In the September, 2013 OKM, September, on page 3 appears "I'll Take Your Literature if You Take Mine."

    ----

    That is the proposition of some householders. Since we do not exchange our Bible study aids for religious literature that disseminates error, how might we answer tactfully? (Rom. 1:25) We could say: "Thank you for your offer. What does this say about the solution to mankind's problems? [Allow for response. If he invites you to read his literature to find the answer, you can remind him that you did not offer literature without telling him what it contains. Then read or quote Matthew 6:9,10.] Jesus indicated that God's Kingdom will cause God's will to be done on earth. Therefore, the only religious literature that I read highlights God's Kingdom. May I show you from the Bible some specific things that God's Kingdom will accomplish?"

    ----

    The JWs are NOT to receive any religious material from the householder.

    But saying that "the only religious literature that I read highlights God's Kingdom." does not seem correct. It assumes that the householder's literature does not itself highlight God's Kingdom.

    Furthermore, it is not accurate in that many JWs read books and publications not published by The Watchtower.

    Saying what the Kingdom Ministry suggests say to a person at the door would not be completely correct, but simply a means to avoid accepting what the householder offers.

  • VM44
    VM44

    So "the only religious literature that I read highlights God's Kingdom."?

    Rather, "the GB often relies on "worldly wisdom" from old books and dead opposers, who were educated by, and members of "apostate Christendom.""

    The JWs should really be more honest when speaking to people at their homes.

    http://www.freeminds.org/history/busselmn.htm

    reprint from the Mar/Apr 1996 Free Minds Journal
    reprints of the Free Minds Journal

    New Light

    from Old Books and Dead Opposers

    by Gary Busselman

    In support of their recent Biblical interpretation change concerning "this generation" (Matt. 24:34), the Governing Body (hereafter GB) of Jehovah's Witnesses submitted four documents. (Watchtower, 11/1/95, p. 12)

    Those were:

    1. Walter Bauer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament.

    2. W.E. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words.

    3. J.H. Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament.

    4. The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (1964), edited by Gerhard Kittle.

    After reading the November 1, 1995 Watchtower, my friend, Steven A. Hickey, pastor of Harvest Covenant Church in Sioux Falls, SD (also a Biblical scholar and theologian) asked me, "How do they get 'new light' from a guy who's been dead for a hundred years?" In my research that he inspired, I found that the GB often relies on "worldly wisdom" from old books and dead opposers, who were educated by, and members of "apostate Christendom." (Sorry folks, Watchtower language, not mine.) Here are some additional facts regarding these sources.

    1. Walter Bauer (1877-1960), German lexicographer. Taught at Gottingen from 1916 to 1945. (Wycliffe Biographical Dictionary of the Church, 1982, Moody Press, Chicago.)

    2. William Edwy Vine (1873-1949), vocal OPPOSER of Jehovah's Witnesses, called their teachings of conditional salvation, the denials of the Deity of Christ, and the Trinity heresies. [Vine was appealed to by the Watchtower 52 times in their encyclopedic Insight on the Scriptures alone.] Greek scholar, educator, editor, pastor and author, educated at University College of Wales; BA & MA in "Ancient Classics" from University of London, pastor at Manvers Hall Church in Bath for 40 years. Celebrated Christmas, believed in Hell and that Christ is God, that He died on a CROSS, it is proper to address Him in prayer, and that all believers partake in the Lord's Supper.

    Vine denied the concept of an early Christian "organization," and a "selective" resurrection. He wrote two volumes on the "End Times" and the parousia. Vine taught that parousia should not be translated at all and that it (parousia) will start with the rapture of the Church, (when believers meet Christ in the air) and it will end with the manifestation of Christ in glory. (Publisher's Forward of Vine's Expository, 1981 ed.and W.E. Vine, His Life and Ministry, Oliphants LTD, London, 1951)

    3. Joseph Henry Thayer (1828 -1901), New Testament lexicographer, born in Boston, MA, College at Harvard and seminary at Andover. Ordained a pastor in the Congregational Church in 1859.Professor of sacred literature at Andover Theological Seminary (1864-1882).Lecturer at Harvard Divinity School (1883-1901). Instrumental in founding the American School of Oriental Research in Jerusalem. (Wycliffe Biographical Dictionary of the Church, 1982, Moody Press, Chicago.)

    4. Gerhard Kittle (1888-1948), German biblical scholar, born in Breslau, Germany. Instructor at Kiel (1913) and Leipzig (1917), professor of New Testament at Greifswalg (1921-1926) (ibid. p. 229)

    Similarly, the Watchtower publication Insight On The Scriptures, vol. 1, p. 440 applies for credibility citing the following sources of "worldly wisdom":

    1. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, James Strong (1822-1894), Methodist biblical scholar and educator. A member of the Anglo-American Bible Revision Committee. (Wycliffe Biographical Dictionary of the Church, 1982, Moody Press, Chicago, p. 385)

    2. Edward Robinson's Greek and English Lexicon, Edward Robinson (1794-1863), American biblical scholar, studied at Hamilton College and learned Greek at Andover Theological Seminary. Did much research and theological writing. (Who Was Who in Church History, Moody Press, Chicago, 1962.)

    What do these Watchtower sources all have in common?

    a. They are all dead. (Long-time dead men don't usually write, call or show up on videos.)

    b. They were all college educated (unlike most Witnesses I know). And they read Greek and Hebrew (unlike all Witnesses I know).

    c. None were Jehovah's Witnesses. All were students of, and/or members of "Christendom."

    d. All were writers of what the Watchtower calls "wisdom of the world."

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    On the one hand, the JWs are told that they need to understand other religions, then, on the other hand, they're told not to read anyone else's literature. Why is this? Do they fear their missionaries...er...publishers...becoming converted? Or do they fear they might see other interpretations of scripture which might make better sense.

    When I took the "Bible study" the JWs first offered me, I thought it would be a Bible study. Instead, they gave me a tiny book and asked me strawman questions. As a Mormon, I didn't want to tell them of my religion, but they kept persisting in asking me. Not knowing any better, I tried reasoning with them. "If I tell you my religion," I told them, "you'll start talking about what's wrong with it rather than telling me what you think about yours." They assured me they would not, so I asked them that since I didn't agree with most of their "answers" in the book, whether it would be okay if we just proceeded with the study.

    We got through that session just fine, but the next time they came, they brought an "elder" with them. This guy immediately began asking me questions and it wasn't long before I could tell he had been reading anti-Mormon literature. That was fine with me, but he began to be aggressive and eventually downright mean spirited. He leaned forward while the other two fellows looked at him as though he were Ghandi. From what he was saying, I could even tell which books he'd been reading. I persisted, answering his questions and at the end, he would barely shake my hand. When they left, the other two said they would call me for my next session. They never did. I never saw any of the three again.

    If someone was going to learn about another religion, I'd expect them to read the source material including the foundational literature. I wondered how the elder would have responded had I pulled out my copy of "Dr." Walter Martin's Kingdom of the Cults and began reading to him the chapter on Jehovah's Witnesses? Wouldn't he have suggested that I read his literature instead of someone's who was so blatantly anti-JW?

    So how can they know anything about a religion without reading about it? And of course there's the obvious hypocrisy in the expectation that you read their literature while they toss yours into the nearest waste bin. Obviously, most people who have religious material can answer a stupid question like, "What does this say about the solution to mankind's problems?" Gee, what if the guy answers the question, what do you do then?

    If publishers agree to read someone's literature if he reads theirs, can they get in trouble with their leaders? What if the guy's an elder? Does he have permission to read it? How does it work??

  • Ding
    Ding

    The GB must really be paranoid.

    Why not tell JWs to take it and throw it away instead of offending the householder?

    Because they're afraid if they take it, they'll read it!

  • WinstonSmith
    WinstonSmith

    Back in New Zealand we had a old brother who used to reply like this:

    "No thanks.I made the effort to come to your door today. If you come to mine I'll take it."

    The day he said it when out with me a householder said "Okay, what's your address?"

    The old bro says "Smith Street."

    The HH said "What number?"

    The old bro said "Just knock on all of them, you'll find me."

    Hilarious!

  • Fernando
    Fernando

    It is my observation that no one fears reading Watchtower publications more than the followers of the Watchtower.

    I'll take your literature once you've read it, and can answer a few questions from it.


    • Is "legalism" apostasy?

    • What is the gospel in one word?

    • Why is the "Good News" according to Paul, Moses, Isaiah and Psalms not in the hearts or on the lips of those claiming to be "publishers of the Good News"?

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    Dropped in to JWN see if if anything's changed. This is the most recent thread in the Active list so dropped in to it next. Looks like nothing's changed. Theists still debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Literature is not Reality but someone's proxy for it. Yours or the other guy's, doesn't matter. His Reality is not the same as everyone else's - his Truth is not going to be the same as yours. Take a minute. A Muslim's Reality, what he or she believes to be True is not going to be the same as your Reality, unless you happen to be a Muslim. Ditto a Jehovah's Witness's Reality. Or a Buddhist's Reality, or a Mormon's, or a Jew's or a Sikh's, or a Baptist Christian's, or a Lutheran Christian's, or an Anglican Christian's or a Scientologist's or a Fill-in-the-blank's Reality. All are compelled to print and distribute words about what they are convinced is Real because they recognise themselves as Special. Blessed. Chosen. Part of an elite in-crowd chosen by the Creator of the Universe Himself to inherit Creation itself. Such arrogance. Literature is words printed on paper, neither of which is particularly rare or precious and none of which is consistent. If your Reality is anchored in Faith or Literature then you've got a problem. Those whose different Realities are likewise anchored in Faith are just as convinced that they are Right and you are Wrong. And you think the same but also the opposite. Right and Wrong. Black and White. They're Right, you're Wrong. Or is it you're Right and they're Wrong? It's hard to keep up. The key to truth is to cast off certainty and embrace doubt, neither of which the Watchtower or any other faith-based system will allow you to do. In your short lifetime you will able to grasp the tiniest fraction of what is True no matter how smart and gifted you are and how long you get to live. The best you can do is increase the fraction by filtering out the bullshit. Forget about literature that represents itself to provide the answers. Whether yours or theirs. You should not be afraid of the questions you cannot answer but only of the questions you cannot ask. I don't know what is True but I'm building on it. I do know what is Not True. So do you. Figure it out.

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy

    Yes the JW's will talk about a kingdom but not about the Good news that the apostles talked about, for they did not mention a kingdom they talked about Christ and the 'good news' was that Jesus is the messiah and he died for our sins was raised on the 3rd day showing that we can be raised on the last day. He also offers a gift of salvation. What better news is there and how is the news about a kingdom better? Its not and thats why the apostles didnt talk about it. Paul also mention that anyone speaking a different message be curst.

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    Commenting in here is like farting in space. Nobody hears and nobody cares. (Except, of course, you being confined in your space suit with the remnant of yesterday's jalapeno burrito.)

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    What arrogance.

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